[Xmca-l] Re: Do we find Inequalities in wild life system?
Andy Blunden
andyb@marxists.org
Tue Jan 29 06:51:17 PST 2019
It's my view, Martin, that in making actions, including
intersubjective actions, /essentially/ artefact-mediated,
Vygotsky transcended "intersubjectivity." His citing of Marx
citing Hegel on the "cunning of reason" is no accident.
Hegel has what he calls (in typical Hegel style) the
"syllogism of action." This is the culminating concept of
the Logic making the transition to the Absolute Idea and
Nature. Hegel points out, and Marx picks up on this, that
this means that every action is mediated by material
culture. Hegel says "the plough is more honourable than
anything produced by its means." For Marx, this is about the
importance of ownership of the means of production. For
Vygotsky, it is what makes Cultural Psychology what it is.
Emphasising the culture in the middle in no way minimises
the constructive role of language use, but it means that the
language itself plays, maybe. the more "honourable" role. :)
andy
------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
On 30/01/2019 1:41 am, Martin Packer wrote:
> There was a general recognition in the social sciences
> (including philosophy) some time ago that it is crucial to
> recognize the existence and importance of
> “intersubjective” phenomena. Language, for example, is
> not subjective, it is intersubjective. As Andy notes,
> subjectivity and even objectivity (think Latour’s analysis
> of science in Laboratory Life) arise from and are
> dependent upon intersubjective phenomena.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>> On Jan 29, 2019, at 12:15 AM, Andy Blunden
>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>
>> When you get the electric chair for murdering someone
>> that is not a linguistic construct.
>>
>> andy
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> Andy Blunden
>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>> On 29/01/2019 2:49 pm, Adam Poole (16517826) wrote:
>>> Perhaps it may be more appropriate to use the term
>>> 'quasi-objective form', as the medium through which
>>> concepts like inequality and injustice are made
>>> objective, language, is itself inherently subjective.
>>> For example, justice can be given objective form in law,
>>> but the law itself is comprised of language, customs,
>>> traditions, beliefs, etc. The manifestation of an
>>> objective form is not universal, but will differ
>>> depending on cultural context. Hence quasi-objective.
>>> Concepts like inequality are given objective form, but
>>> it doesn't mean that they are objective in nature, due
>>> to the mediating role of language.
>>>
>>> Adam
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Andy
>>> Blunden <andyb@marxists.org>
>>> *Sent:* 29 January 2019 08:16:35
>>> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Do we find Inequalities in wild
>>> life system?
>>>
>>> Mmm, "subjective" is a polysemous word, Huw. It is not a
>>> matter of precision but of relativity. "Inequality" is a
>>> famously contested concept, as is "injustice," but its
>>> contestation is necessarily in a social context and with
>>> social content. Justice and equality are given objective
>>> form in law and social policy in definite,
>>> really-existing states or organisations challenging for
>>> state power, not the opinion of individuals.
>>>
>>> andy
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Andy Blunden
>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>> On 29/01/2019 1:50 am, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>>>> It isn't "subjective", Andy. Rather it is limited to a
>>>> certain construal. One can be quite precise and
>>>> objective about that construal.
>>>>
>>>> Huw
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 14:14, Andy Blunden
>>>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I can't agree that with your suggestion, Huw, that
>>>> inequality (in the meaning with which Harshad used
>>>> it) is something subjective, in the eye of the
>>>> beholder. Such a view would be very pernicious
>>>> politically. The fact is that states have emerged
>>>> and developed over many centuries so as to makes
>>>> objective certain concepts of justice, among which
>>>> are various qualified and nuances notions of
>>>> equality. This is not figment of my imagination.
>>>>
>>>> andy
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Andy Blunden
>>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>>> On 29/01/2019 12:59 am, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>>>>> We find "wild life" systems that are imbalanced
>>>>> and subject to radical changes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Inequality is a perceptual/cognitive construct and
>>>>> predicated on an ontological scope. We find the
>>>>> condition of inequality (or comparison) in our
>>>>> thinking and behaviour. Every living thing "finds"
>>>>> inequalities. We do not find inequality, we find
>>>>> the awareness of inequality.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 08:17, James Ma
>>>>> <jamesma320@gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:jamesma320@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Should you find inequality within a wildlife
>>>>> system, that must be a political, ideological
>>>>> precept!
>>>>>
>>>>> James
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 07:56, James Ma
>>>>> <jamesma320@gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:jamesma320@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Not only is it meaningless but also
>>>>> preposterous. To maintain that all members
>>>>> of the same species are equal, as Anne
>>>>> Moir and David Jessel put it, is to "build
>>>>> a society based on a biological and
>>>>> scientific lie".
>>>>> James
>>>>> PS: I'm apolitical - anything political,
>>>>> ideological just doesn't speak to me!
>>>>>
>>>>> */_______________________________________________________/*
>>>>>
>>>>> /*James Ma *Independent Scholar
>>>>> //https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa
>>>>> /
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 05:27, Andy Blunden
>>>>> <andyb@marxists.org
>>>>> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Harshad,
>>>>>
>>>>> "Inequality" is a meaningless concept
>>>>> when referred to Nature. Likewise
>>>>> "Injustice."
>>>>>
>>>>> Justice and equality are relevant only
>>>>> to the extent that the subjects are
>>>>> living in an 'artificial' world, out
>>>>> of Nature. Natural disasters and the
>>>>> plenitude of Nature have these
>>>>> dimensions only to the extent they are
>>>>> imposed on or made available to
>>>>> different classes of people by the
>>>>> social system.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope that helps.
>>>>>
>>>>> Andy
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Andy Blunden
>>>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> On 28/01/2019 4:00 pm, Harshad Dave wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am working on one article. I want
>>>>>> to know your views on following query.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Do we find Inequalities exists in
>>>>>> wild life system?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your views will help me in my work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Harshad Dave
>>>>>> Email: hhdave15@gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:hhdave15@gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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