[Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie

[mike cole]

Thanks for adding Reijo's paper, Alfredo.
Yes, Larry, there are too many papers circulating at once!
mike

On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 9:11 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
wrote:

> ​The Garrison paper reads best in company of its commentary by Miettinem,
> who defends CHAT's dialectical premises.
>
> Alfredo
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* lpscholar2@gmail.com <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 07 January 2017 05:10
> *To:* mike cole; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> *Cc:* Alfredo Jornet Gil
>
> *Subject:* RE: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
>
>
> Thanks Mike,
>
> Will take some time to digest these mutiple documents that are now
> circulating around the topics of experience & learning & development and
> their relations to perezhivanie. A vital topic to open the new year.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Windows 10 phone
>
>
>
> *From: *mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
> *Sent: *January 6, 2017 5:29 PM
> *To: *eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Cc: *Alfredo Jornet Gil <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
>
>
>
> Here is the Garrison article. A search of the lchc site turned up a
>
> discussion of his work in 2007. And earlier, with an interruption for
>
> Garrison Keiler. :-)
>
> mike
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 4:57 PM, <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Alfredo,
>
> > I have started reading through the article you have attached that you
> and
>
> > Wolf-Michael Roth wrote together. I noticed an article referenced  by J.
>
> > Garrison [An Introduction to Dewey’s Theory of Functional ‘trans-action’:
>
> > An alternative paradigm for Activity Theory] in Mind Culture and Activity
>
> > 2001.  Is this article archived as open access?
>
> > I believe Garrison may also contribute to my growing understanding of
>
> > [experience and learning].  You reference this at a point in your paper
>
> > [page 108] where you are discussing experience is in EXCESS of cognitive
>
> > construction. [a tremendous excess of experience over intellectual
> subject
>
> > matter]. This is a path worth travrlling along.
>
> >
>
> > Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> >
>
> > From: Alfredo Jornet Gilthat experience is always in
>
> > Sent: January 6, 2017 9:43 AM
>
> > To: lpscholar2@gmail.com; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>
> > Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
>
> >
>
> > Larry, great additions, but why writing "trans/hivanie" when we have a
>
> > number of resources to be aware of the etymological roots of
> perezhivanie?
>
> > One such resource is in Andy Blunden's article in the special issue.
>
> > Another is an earlier paper Michael and myself co-authored a few years
> ago
>
> > and which you can find attached. I quote from the paper:
>
> >
>
> > "Experience (perezhivanie) in its original sense—in English and Russian
> as
>
> > well as in the French exp´er ience or the German equivalent Erfahr
>
> > ung—suggests that in contrast to the repetition of something, experience
> is
>
> > related to travel, traversal, peril, risk, and change. The
>
> > Proto-Indo-European root per(e) -denotes the verbs to try, dare, and
> risk,
>
> > put oneself in danger; as such, it also made it into suchwords as exper
>
> > iment (Greek pe´ırama,  experiment) and perilous."
>
> >
>
> > Alfredo
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > From: lpscholar2@gmail.com <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
>
> > Sent: 06 January 2017 18:27
>
> > To: Alfredo Jornet Gil; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>
> > Subject: RE: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
>
> >
>
> > Rob, and Christopher, and Alfreda, and Marc,
>
> > This is an interesting reference to Nozick and achieving an experience
>
> > without struggle. I want to refocus us on how this insight is an
> extension
>
> > to Christopher’s posting. In particular the opening paragraph. The image
> of
>
> > smashing to bits the bricks is wrapped up in the end moment of
>
> > trans/hivanie.
>
> > SO the focus on what occurs before this end point central to
> Christopher’s
>
> > question :
>
> > ‘but is this how trans/hivanie works?’
>
> > AND Christopher answers by focusing on the :
>
> > ‘extended back and forth, the REPEATED back and forth, the
>
> > (living-through) that seems to be exemplary of trans/hivanie.
>
> >
>
> > Marc says it is ‘this’ phenomena that brought him to trans/hivanie and
> not
>
> > the other way around.
>
> > What is occurring within the ‘repetition’ being lived through.
>
> > As an aside Nozick turned to eastern philosophy from the  Indian
>
> > subcontinent for deeper inspiration. I could add more if interest
> warrants
>
> > (possibly another thread).
>
> >
>
> > ALSO, i recommend going to page 27 of Bella’s article (that Peter posted)
>
> > to get a sense of Vygotsky’s extended repeated (living through) of the
>
> > Jewish question that he was writing extensively about in 1916. On that
> page
>
> > Bella refers to two articles Vygotsky wrote on this theme. One was in a
>
> > (literary) mode while the other was written in a (psychological) mode.
>
> > Trans/hivanie at work implicitly as formative of the later Vygotsky.
>
> > This topic, as Bella images as spaghetti tangles. In Vygotsky’s own words
>
> > from 1916 on the incomprehensible riddle-like companion of Jewish
>
> > history as :
>
> >
>
> > ‘riddle-like, inexplicability, the MYSTERY of Isreal ....   eternal
> fellow
>
> > traveler of the eternal people, the SECRET of the eternity of the Jewish
>
> > people’
>
> >
>
> > To further this strand we should possibly keep distinct from this month’s
>
> > article. However the theme of ‘repetition’ that had the mood of profound
>
> > struggle or at a deeper level a mood of no movement and closed off, is
> the
>
> > process occuring which maybat some point in time erupt as smashing 2016
> to
>
> > bits and bricks scattering as an act of ‘deconstruction’ that i believe
> can
>
> > loose the reality of what came before, starting with Bella’s zero stage
>
> > that is  (existential). A time when the person traversing the zero stage
>
> > should be ‘recognized’ through moral/ethical care and concern. Not a
>
> > journey of (mineness) through Heidegger which is a protesting protestant
>
> > approach, but through mitsein as living-through.
>
> > I hope my referencing multiple speakers but trying to stay within strands
>
> > is clear?
>
> > Perezhivanie as trans/hivanie as Marc says is approached through multiple
>
> > pluaristic traditions that are psychological, literary, and philosophical
>
> > and extend through historical consciousness as the living-through
>
> > repetitive back and forth traversal that INCLUDES as central the PAUSE or
>
> > MA or INTERVAL or GAP.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Sent from my Windows 10 phone
>
> >
>
> > From: Alfredo Jornet Gil
>
> > Sent: January 6, 2017 7:17 AM
>
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
>
> >
>
> > Rob, how appropriate the thought experiment!
>
> > Alfredo
>
> >
>
> > ________________________________________
>
> > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>
> > on behalf of R.J.S.Parsons <r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.uk>
>
> > Sent: 06 January 2017 15:41
>
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
>
> >
>
> > In thinking about "experience as struggle", I found myself considering
>
> > Nozick's thought experiment of the experience machine, which he uses to
>
> > explore the issue of ethical hedonism.* Consider a machine which could
>
> > stimulate a person's brain to induce pleasurable experiences that the
>
> > subject could not distinguish from those he would have apart from the
>
> > machine. Nozick then asks, if given the choice, would we prefer the
>
> > machine to real life? (this description from Wikipedia). It strikes me
>
> > that the experience delivered by the machine is experience without
>
> > struggle. There is no activity from the subject, meaning making is not
>
> > necessary, and therefore there is no development.
>
> >
>
> > Clara quotes Vygotsky "A perezhivanie is a unit where, on the one hand,
>
> > in an indivisible state, the environment is represented, i.e. that which
>
> > is being experienced—a perezhivanie is always related to something which
>
> > is found outside the person—and on the other hand, what is represented
>
> > is how I, myself, am experiencing this," - the thought experiment breaks
>
> > the unit, and in doing so, I think, demonstrates how important its
>
> > existence as a unit is.
>
> >
>
> > *Also brilliantly explored in the "Total Immersion Video game" in Red
>
> > Dwarf Season 5 episode 6 Back To Reality.
>
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IzX6b1YJHI
>
> >
>
> > Rob
>
> >
>
> > On 03/01/2017 17:37, Christopher Schuck wrote:
>
> > > It's an interesting question (about the brick and perezhivanie), partly
>
> > > because that extended, "living-through", repeated doubling-back process
>
> > > evoked by the Vygotskian sense of the concept would seem to be at odds
>
> > with
>
> > > a single, discrete act of "smashing" that is immediate, forceful and
> even
>
> > > violent. It would suggest that part of what perezhivanie means is
> wrapped
>
> > > up in the symbolic marking of its end - and that this end, when it
> comes,
>
> > > can be forceful. Certainly, the image could not be more unified and
>
> > > embodying of a particular set of meaningful experiences. But is that
> how
>
> > > perezhivanie works? This leads me to ask:
>
> > >
>
> > > 1) what are the problems and contradictions encountered in using
>
> > particular
>
> > > metaphors to depict perezhivanie, where perezhivanie is itself so
> defined
>
> > > by imagination and narrativity? Part of this might also be a question
> of
>
> > > what it means to describe and represent one's own perezhivanie
>
> > > figuratively/narratively (whether to others, or to oneself), as opposed
>
> > to
>
> > > living that perezhivanie. Especially if the attempt to
> capture/represent
>
> > > one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also central to the living of it?
>
> > >
>
> > >   2) What is the nature of the relationship between perezhivanie and
>
> > force,
>
> > > either in terms of the internal process or in terms of how it finally
>
> > > "ends"?  (Not to mention, how it begins). It would seem that in both
>
> > > conceptions discussed in the article there is a certain intensity
>
> > required.
>
> > > But does this in some cases require something more explosive - and does
>
> > > Vasilyuk's conception of perezhivanie as activity speak more to this
>
> > > possibility? And how do we reconcile this with the less "forceful"
> notion
>
> > > of enduring, revisiting, and working through?
>
> > >
>
> > > On Monday, January 2, 2017, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > >> The pieces of brick thrown up by this political hammering have not yet
>
> > >> fallen and made the devastation personally experienced by the
>
> > nation/world.
>
> > >>
>
> > >> Still, genuinely, we can wish all of us 7.3 billion well in the new
>
> > year.
>
> > >>
>
> > >> So what do you think chuck, is this a good representation of
>
> > perezhivanie?
>
> > >> :-)
>
> > >> Mike
>
> > >>
>
> > >> On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 11:24 AM Charles Bazerman <
>
> > >> bazerman@education.ucsb.edu> wrote:
>
> > >>
>
> > >>> So you think 2017 has any hope of being any better?
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> Chuck
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> From: mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> Date: Monday, January 2, 2017 11:01 am
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l]  New Year's Perezhivanie
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>>> With the New Year, as our Russian colleagues put it!
>
> > >>>> This image forwarded from a friend more or less sums up my
> experience
>
> > >>>> of
>
> > >>>> the past year. Thought you might find it interesting too.
>
> > >>>> Vis a vis the discussion of perezhivanie: Does this image provide us
>
> > >> with
>
> > >>>> used (re-presented) behavioral evidence of a person undergoing
>
> > >>> perezhivanie?
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>>> Looking forward to the discussion.
>
> > >>>> Feliz año nuevo!
>
> > >>>> Mike
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>