[Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie

[lpscholar2@gmail.com]

Thanks Alfredo,
Yes articles do read better with companions. I have now printed out all these articles and will meander through as I try to follow and understand the conversation ongoing between you and Marc around the keystone notion, motion, and emotion of mediation in relation to perezhivanie.  Moving from vague understanding towards hopefully more shared understanding.   I believe these companion pieces may support this traversal as I pick up the multiple strands of this months topic. 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Alfredo Jornet Gil
Sent: January 6, 2017 9:11 PM
To: lpscholar2@gmail.com; mike cole; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie

​The Garrison paper reads best in company of its commentary by Miettinem, who defends CHAT's dialectical premises. 
Alfredo


From: lpscholar2@gmail.com <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
Sent: 07 January 2017 05:10
To: mike cole; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Cc: Alfredo Jornet Gil
Subject: RE: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie 
 
Thanks Mike,
Will take some time to digest these mutiple documents that are now circulating around the topics of experience & learning & development and their relations to perezhivanie. A vital topic to open the new year.
 
 
 
Sent from my Windows 10 phone
 
From: mike cole
Sent: January 6, 2017 5:29 PM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Cc: Alfredo Jornet Gil
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
 
Here is the Garrison article. A search of the lchc site turned up a
discussion of his work in 2007. And earlier, with an interruption for
Garrison Keiler. :-)
mike
 
On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 4:57 PM, <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
 
> Alfredo,
> I have started reading through the article you have attached that you  and
> Wolf-Michael Roth wrote together. I noticed an article referenced  by J.
> Garrison [An Introduction to Dewey’s Theory of Functional ‘trans-action’:
> An alternative paradigm for Activity Theory] in Mind Culture and Activity
> 2001.  Is this article archived as open access?
> I believe Garrison may also contribute to my growing understanding of
> [experience and learning].  You reference this at a point in your paper
> [page 108] where you are discussing experience is in EXCESS of cognitive
> construction. [a tremendous excess of experience over intellectual subject
> matter]. This is a path worth travrlling along.
> 
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> 
> From: Alfredo Jornet Gilthat experience is always in
> Sent: January 6, 2017 9:43 AM
> To: lpscholar2@gmail.com; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
> 
> Larry, great additions, but why writing "trans/hivanie" when we have a
> number of resources to be aware of the etymological roots of perezhivanie?
> One such resource is in Andy Blunden's article in the special issue.
> Another is an earlier paper Michael and myself co-authored a few years ago
> and which you can find attached. I quote from the paper:
> 
> "Experience (perezhivanie) in its original sense—in English and Russian as
> well as in the French exp´er ience or the German equivalent Erfahr
> ung—suggests that in contrast to the repetition of something, experience is
> related to travel, traversal, peril, risk, and change. The
> Proto-Indo-European root per(e) -denotes the verbs to try, dare, and risk,
> put oneself in danger; as such, it also made it into suchwords as exper
> iment (Greek pe´ırama,  experiment) and perilous."
> 
> Alfredo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: lpscholar2@gmail.com <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> Sent: 06 January 2017 18:27
> To: Alfredo Jornet Gil; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: RE: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
> 
> Rob, and Christopher, and Alfreda, and Marc,
> This is an interesting reference to Nozick and achieving an experience
> without struggle. I want to refocus us on how this insight is an extension
> to Christopher’s posting. In particular the opening paragraph. The image of
> smashing to bits the bricks is wrapped up in the end moment of
> trans/hivanie.
> SO the focus on what occurs before this end point central to Christopher’s
> question :
> ‘but is this how trans/hivanie works?’
> AND Christopher answers by focusing on the :
> ‘extended back and forth, the REPEATED back and forth, the
> (living-through) that seems to be exemplary of trans/hivanie.
> 
> Marc says it is ‘this’ phenomena that brought him to trans/hivanie and not
> the other way around.
> What is occurring within the ‘repetition’ being lived through.
> As an aside Nozick turned to eastern philosophy from the  Indian
> subcontinent for deeper inspiration. I could add more if interest warrants
> (possibly another thread).
> 
> ALSO, i recommend going to page 27 of Bella’s article (that Peter posted)
> to get a sense of Vygotsky’s extended repeated (living through) of the
> Jewish question that he was writing extensively about in 1916. On that page
> Bella refers to two articles Vygotsky wrote on this theme. One was in a
> (literary) mode while the other was written in a (psychological) mode.
> Trans/hivanie at work implicitly as formative of the later Vygotsky.
> This topic, as Bella images as spaghetti tangles. In Vygotsky’s own words
> from 1916 on the incomprehensible riddle-like companion of Jewish
> history as :
> 
> ‘riddle-like, inexplicability, the MYSTERY of Isreal ....   eternal fellow
> traveler of the eternal people, the SECRET of the eternity of the Jewish
> people’
> 
> To further this strand we should possibly keep distinct from this month’s
> article. However the theme of ‘repetition’ that had the mood of profound
> struggle or at a deeper level a mood of no movement and closed off, is the
> process occuring which maybat some point in time erupt as smashing 2016 to
> bits and bricks scattering as an act of ‘deconstruction’ that i believe can
> loose the reality of what came before, starting with Bella’s zero stage
> that is  (existential). A time when the person traversing the zero stage
> should be ‘recognized’ through moral/ethical care and concern. Not a
> journey of (mineness) through Heidegger which is a protesting protestant
> approach, but through mitsein as living-through.
> I hope my referencing multiple speakers but trying to stay within strands
> is clear?
> Perezhivanie as trans/hivanie as Marc says is approached through multiple
> pluaristic traditions that are psychological, literary, and philosophical
> and extend through historical consciousness as the living-through
> repetitive back and forth traversal that INCLUDES as central the PAUSE or
> MA or INTERVAL or GAP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Windows 10 phone
> 
> From: Alfredo Jornet Gil
> Sent: January 6, 2017 7:17 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
> 
> Rob, how appropriate the thought experiment!
> Alfredo
> 
> ________________________________________
> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> on behalf of R.J.S.Parsons <r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.uk>
> Sent: 06 January 2017 15:41
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
> 
> In thinking about "experience as struggle", I found myself considering
> Nozick's thought experiment of the experience machine, which he uses to
> explore the issue of ethical hedonism.* Consider a machine which could
> stimulate a person's brain to induce pleasurable experiences that the
> subject could not distinguish from those he would have apart from the
> machine. Nozick then asks, if given the choice, would we prefer the
> machine to real life? (this description from Wikipedia). It strikes me
> that the experience delivered by the machine is experience without
> struggle. There is no activity from the subject, meaning making is not
> necessary, and therefore there is no development.
> 
> Clara quotes Vygotsky "A perezhivanie is a unit where, on the one hand,
> in an indivisible state, the environment is represented, i.e. that which
> is being experienced—a perezhivanie is always related to something which
> is found outside the person—and on the other hand, what is represented
> is how I, myself, am experiencing this," - the thought experiment breaks
> the unit, and in doing so, I think, demonstrates how important its
> existence as a unit is.
> 
> *Also brilliantly explored in the "Total Immersion Video game" in Red
> Dwarf Season 5 episode 6 Back To Reality.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IzX6b1YJHI
> 
> Rob
> 
> On 03/01/2017 17:37, Christopher Schuck wrote:
> > It's an interesting question (about the brick and perezhivanie), partly
> > because that extended, "living-through", repeated doubling-back process
> > evoked by the Vygotskian sense of the concept would seem to be at odds
> with
> > a single, discrete act of "smashing" that is immediate, forceful and even
> > violent. It would suggest that part of what perezhivanie means is wrapped
> > up in the symbolic marking of its end - and that this end, when it comes,
> > can be forceful. Certainly, the image could not be more unified and
> > embodying of a particular set of meaningful experiences. But is that how
> > perezhivanie works? This leads me to ask:
> >
> > 1) what are the problems and contradictions encountered in using
> particular
> > metaphors to depict perezhivanie, where perezhivanie is itself so defined
> > by imagination and narrativity? Part of this might also be a question of
> > what it means to describe and represent one's own perezhivanie
> > figuratively/narratively (whether to others, or to oneself), as opposed
> to
> > living that perezhivanie. Especially if the attempt to capture/represent
> > one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also central to the living of it?
> >
> >   2) What is the nature of the relationship between perezhivanie and
> force,
> > either in terms of the internal process or in terms of how it finally
> > "ends"?  (Not to mention, how it begins). It would seem that in both
> > conceptions discussed in the article there is a certain intensity
> required.
> > But does this in some cases require something more explosive - and does
> > Vasilyuk's conception of perezhivanie as activity speak more to this
> > possibility? And how do we reconcile this with the less "forceful" notion
> > of enduring, revisiting, and working through?
> >
> > On Monday, January 2, 2017, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> The pieces of brick thrown up by this political hammering have not yet
> >> fallen and made the devastation personally experienced by the
> nation/world.
> >>
> >> Still, genuinely, we can wish all of us 7.3 billion well in the new
> year.
> >>
> >> So what do you think chuck, is this a good representation of
> perezhivanie?
> >> :-)
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 11:24 AM Charles Bazerman <
> >> bazerman@education.ucsb.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>> So you think 2017 has any hope of being any better?
> >>>
> >>> Chuck
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>
> >>> From: mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
> >>>
> >>> Date: Monday, January 2, 2017 11:01 am
> >>>
> >>> Subject: [Xmca-l]  New Year's Perezhivanie
> >>>
> >>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> With the New Year, as our Russian colleagues put it!
> >>>> This image forwarded from a friend more or less sums up my experience
> >>>> of
> >>>> the past year. Thought you might find it interesting too.
> >>>> Vis a vis the discussion of perezhivanie: Does this image provide us
> >> with
> >>>> used (re-presented) behavioral evidence of a person undergoing
> >>> perezhivanie?
> >>>
> >>>> Looking forward to the discussion.
> >>>> Feliz año nuevo!
> >>>> Mike
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
 

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