[Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie

[Alfredo Jornet Gil]

​The Garrison paper reads best in company of its commentary by Miettinem, who defends CHAT's dialectical premises.

Alfredo


________________________________
From: lpscholar2@gmail.com <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
Sent: 07 January 2017 05:10
To: mike cole; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Cc: Alfredo Jornet Gil
Subject: RE: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie

Thanks Mike,
Will take some time to digest these mutiple documents that are now circulating around the topics of experience & learning & development and their relations to perezhivanie. A vital topic to open the new year.



Sent from my Windows 10 phone

From: mike cole<mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>
Sent: January 6, 2017 5:29 PM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity<mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
Cc: Alfredo Jornet Gil<mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie

Here is the Garrison article. A search of the lchc site turned up a
discussion of his work in 2007. And earlier, with an interruption for
Garrison Keiler. :-)
mike

On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 4:57 PM, <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:

> Alfredo,
> I have started reading through the article you have attached that you  and
> Wolf-Michael Roth wrote together. I noticed an article referenced  by J.
> Garrison [An Introduction to Dewey’s Theory of Functional ‘trans-action’:
> An alternative paradigm for Activity Theory] in Mind Culture and Activity
> 2001.  Is this article archived as open access?
> I believe Garrison may also contribute to my growing understanding of
> [experience and learning].  You reference this at a point in your paper
> [page 108] where you are discussing experience is in EXCESS of cognitive
> construction. [a tremendous excess of experience over intellectual subject
> matter]. This is a path worth travrlling along.
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> From: Alfredo Jornet Gilthat experience is always in
> Sent: January 6, 2017 9:43 AM
> To: lpscholar2@gmail.com; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
>
> Larry, great additions, but why writing "trans/hivanie" when we have a
> number of resources to be aware of the etymological roots of perezhivanie?
> One such resource is in Andy Blunden's article in the special issue.
> Another is an earlier paper Michael and myself co-authored a few years ago
> and which you can find attached. I quote from the paper:
>
> "Experience (perezhivanie) in its original sense—in English and Russian as
> well as in the French exp´er ience or the German equivalent Erfahr
> ung—suggests that in contrast to the repetition of something, experience is
> related to travel, traversal, peril, risk, and change. The
> Proto-Indo-European root per(e) -denotes the verbs to try, dare, and risk,
> put oneself in danger; as such, it also made it into suchwords as exper
> iment (Greek pe´ırama,  experiment) and perilous."
>
> Alfredo
>
>
>
>
>
> From: lpscholar2@gmail.com <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> Sent: 06 January 2017 18:27
> To: Alfredo Jornet Gil; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: RE: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
>
> Rob, and Christopher, and Alfreda, and Marc,
> This is an interesting reference to Nozick and achieving an experience
> without struggle. I want to refocus us on how this insight is an extension
> to Christopher’s posting. In particular the opening paragraph. The image of
> smashing to bits the bricks is wrapped up in the end moment of
> trans/hivanie.
> SO the focus on what occurs before this end point central to Christopher’s
> question :
> ‘but is this how trans/hivanie works?’
> AND Christopher answers by focusing on the :
> ‘extended back and forth, the REPEATED back and forth, the
> (living-through) that seems to be exemplary of trans/hivanie.
>
> Marc says it is ‘this’ phenomena that brought him to trans/hivanie and not
> the other way around.
> What is occurring within the ‘repetition’ being lived through.
> As an aside Nozick turned to eastern philosophy from the  Indian
> subcontinent for deeper inspiration. I could add more if interest warrants
> (possibly another thread).
>
> ALSO, i recommend going to page 27 of Bella’s article (that Peter posted)
> to get a sense of Vygotsky’s extended repeated (living through) of the
> Jewish question that he was writing extensively about in 1916. On that page
> Bella refers to two articles Vygotsky wrote on this theme. One was in a
> (literary) mode while the other was written in a (psychological) mode.
> Trans/hivanie at work implicitly as formative of the later Vygotsky.
> This topic, as Bella images as spaghetti tangles. In Vygotsky’s own words
> from 1916 on the incomprehensible riddle-like companion of Jewish
> history as :
>
> ‘riddle-like, inexplicability, the MYSTERY of Isreal ....   eternal fellow
> traveler of the eternal people, the SECRET of the eternity of the Jewish
> people’
>
> To further this strand we should possibly keep distinct from this month’s
> article. However the theme of ‘repetition’ that had the mood of profound
> struggle or at a deeper level a mood of no movement and closed off, is the
> process occuring which maybat some point in time erupt as smashing 2016 to
> bits and bricks scattering as an act of ‘deconstruction’ that i believe can
> loose the reality of what came before, starting with Bella’s zero stage
> that is  (existential). A time when the person traversing the zero stage
> should be ‘recognized’ through moral/ethical care and concern. Not a
> journey of (mineness) through Heidegger which is a protesting protestant
> approach, but through mitsein as living-through.
> I hope my referencing multiple speakers but trying to stay within strands
> is clear?
> Perezhivanie as trans/hivanie as Marc says is approached through multiple
> pluaristic traditions that are psychological, literary, and philosophical
> and extend through historical consciousness as the living-through
> repetitive back and forth traversal that INCLUDES as central the PAUSE or
> MA or INTERVAL or GAP.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Windows 10 phone
>
> From: Alfredo Jornet Gil
> Sent: January 6, 2017 7:17 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
>
> Rob, how appropriate the thought experiment!
> Alfredo
>
> ________________________________________
> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> on behalf of R.J.S.Parsons <r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.uk>
> Sent: 06 January 2017 15:41
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
>
> In thinking about "experience as struggle", I found myself considering
> Nozick's thought experiment of the experience machine, which he uses to
> explore the issue of ethical hedonism.* Consider a machine which could
> stimulate a person's brain to induce pleasurable experiences that the
> subject could not distinguish from those he would have apart from the
> machine. Nozick then asks, if given the choice, would we prefer the
> machine to real life? (this description from Wikipedia). It strikes me
> that the experience delivered by the machine is experience without
> struggle. There is no activity from the subject, meaning making is not
> necessary, and therefore there is no development.
>
> Clara quotes Vygotsky "A perezhivanie is a unit where, on the one hand,
> in an indivisible state, the environment is represented, i.e. that which
> is being experienced—a perezhivanie is always related to something which
> is found outside the person—and on the other hand, what is represented
> is how I, myself, am experiencing this," - the thought experiment breaks
> the unit, and in doing so, I think, demonstrates how important its
> existence as a unit is.
>
> *Also brilliantly explored in the "Total Immersion Video game" in Red
> Dwarf Season 5 episode 6 Back To Reality.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IzX6b1YJHI
>
> Rob
>
> On 03/01/2017 17:37, Christopher Schuck wrote:
> > It's an interesting question (about the brick and perezhivanie), partly
> > because that extended, "living-through", repeated doubling-back process
> > evoked by the Vygotskian sense of the concept would seem to be at odds
> with
> > a single, discrete act of "smashing" that is immediate, forceful and even
> > violent. It would suggest that part of what perezhivanie means is wrapped
> > up in the symbolic marking of its end - and that this end, when it comes,
> > can be forceful. Certainly, the image could not be more unified and
> > embodying of a particular set of meaningful experiences. But is that how
> > perezhivanie works? This leads me to ask:
> >
> > 1) what are the problems and contradictions encountered in using
> particular
> > metaphors to depict perezhivanie, where perezhivanie is itself so defined
> > by imagination and narrativity? Part of this might also be a question of
> > what it means to describe and represent one's own perezhivanie
> > figuratively/narratively (whether to others, or to oneself), as opposed
> to
> > living that perezhivanie. Especially if the attempt to capture/represent
> > one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also central to the living of it?
> >
> >   2) What is the nature of the relationship between perezhivanie and
> force,
> > either in terms of the internal process or in terms of how it finally
> > "ends"?  (Not to mention, how it begins). It would seem that in both
> > conceptions discussed in the article there is a certain intensity
> required.
> > But does this in some cases require something more explosive - and does
> > Vasilyuk's conception of perezhivanie as activity speak more to this
> > possibility? And how do we reconcile this with the less "forceful" notion
> > of enduring, revisiting, and working through?
> >
> > On Monday, January 2, 2017, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> The pieces of brick thrown up by this political hammering have not yet
> >> fallen and made the devastation personally experienced by the
> nation/world.
> >>
> >> Still, genuinely, we can wish all of us 7.3 billion well in the new
> year.
> >>
> >> So what do you think chuck, is this a good representation of
> perezhivanie?
> >> :-)
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 11:24 AM Charles Bazerman <
> >> bazerman@education.ucsb.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>> So you think 2017 has any hope of being any better?
> >>>
> >>> Chuck
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>
> >>> From: mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
> >>>
> >>> Date: Monday, January 2, 2017 11:01 am
> >>>
> >>> Subject: [Xmca-l]  New Year's Perezhivanie
> >>>
> >>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> With the New Year, as our Russian colleagues put it!
> >>>> This image forwarded from a friend more or less sums up my experience
> >>>> of
> >>>> the past year. Thought you might find it interesting too.
> >>>> Vis a vis the discussion of perezhivanie: Does this image provide us
> >> with
> >>>> used (re-presented) behavioral evidence of a person undergoing
> >>> perezhivanie?
> >>>
> >>>> Looking forward to the discussion.
> >>>> Feliz año nuevo!
> >>>> Mike
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>
>
>
>
>

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Artifact Mediation in Dewey and in Cultural Historical Activity Theory.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 158488 bytes
Desc: Artifact Mediation in Dewey and in Cultural Historical
 Activity Theory.pdf
Url : https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca-l/attachments/20170107/246ec42c/attachment-0001.pdf