Re: [xmca] We are all "On the way"

[Christine Schweighart <schweighartc@gmail.com>]

P.S. Before I go, I was going to share this radio discussion I was
listening to in my car journey this morning:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qykl
I remember a lovely snippet in there where this problem of 'naming a
relationship as a thing' appeared quite clearly in my listening.
 Christine.

On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 2:38 PM, Christine Schweighart
<schweighartc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Larry and Robert,
>  I enjoyed that you shared reading that footnote too Larry, I could
> identify with spending time in the purity of mountainscape. You took a
> little clip where I'd mentioned actuality and co-presence,  and you
> mentioned 'matters' which seems to be awareness of taking actuality in
> relation to reality. I was mentioning actuality and co-presence,
> though not demarcated off by a technological medium or not. Coming
> into actuality is maybe more a liminal move, noticing coming from
> unconsciousness - by finding responses maybe - and  feeling vitality.
> I was thinking of  Uchiyama's writing to convey this:
>
> "Let us -take an example. In order to continue to play music, we have to listen
> to the music as a whole, which includes sounds we created in the past, sounds
> we are creating, and sounds we expect to create in the future. We hear the
> music as a whole. But where do we hear that music? It is not in the real space,
> the sounds we created there in the past have disappeared. Thus, the place
> where the music sounds as a whole is the abstract place beyond time and
> space. It resides, as it were, between us and real space. According to Kimura
> (1998), this "between-ness" is called "actuality' and other players share this
> "actuality' at the same time. In other words, we hear the music as an
> autoaffection
> of appearing to us without any medium. We do not hear the music
> through our ears in reality, but hear the music in actuality through
> Aristotelian "common sense" (meaning the common sense between the five
> senses) This is the only way we can comprehend the "actuality'.
> Let us now turn more directly to the issue of information systems in the
> context of "actuality" "
>
> Reinterpreting Soft Systems Methodology(SSM):
> Introducing Actuality into the Field of
> Management and Information Systems Studies
> Kenichi Uchiyama
> Submitted in fulfilment of the requirements for the award
> of the degree of Doctor of Philosophy
> London School of Economics and Political Science
> 1999
>
> But where he has 'real space' he seems to be giving a name to a
> 'relationship quality' in the way Ilyenkov critiques others who go on
> to talk about 'abstract' and 'concrete' through dividing 'real things
> in the world' and 'qualities about those things which can't be found
> as things'. This seems so as following his abstract he uses this
> 'empiricist'(??) thinking, so it seems to me he's talking about
> 'appearing' from a liminal transition from sub-consciousness and
> feeling in 'actuality'.  'Actuality:reality is  a different moment
> again. In playng music it's not the technology of the instruments that
> is the boundary.
>
> Anyway - I have to leave it at that - and wonder what 'critical
> realism' might offer - as it has mystified me what kind of logic it is
> to think that 'there are underlying patterns organising humanity, it's
> just very difficult to find them' - and whether/how in that
> individuation figures..
> I'll step out now for a while - thanks both.
>  Christine.
>
> On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 6:14 AM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Christine.
>>
>> I want to pick up on your theme of geneology and the love of
>> intergenerational scholarship. You wrote:
>>
>>  yet intertwining with 'reality'  brings in historical development of
>> 'human culture' beyond actuality as co-presence - and in this there is a
>> labour of love in intergenerationality of scholarship - (as Robert 's post
>> and the
>> article he shares shows).
>>
>> If we are all *on the way* then James Good's article on Dewey's
>> intergenerational debt to Hegel is a labour of love.
>> On page 304 of that article Good writes that in Dewey's 1897 lecture he
>> explored the concept of *absolute spirit*. and interpreted Hegel meant that
>> "absolute spirit is nothing more than the human race in its historical
>> development. Rather than a pre-existing ground of being or guarantor of
>> logical categories, absolute spirit IS an INTERPRETATION of human history.
>> Absolute spirit is simply a THEORETICAL formulation of the idea of
>> subjectivity, of individuality, of freedom, which has played so large a
>> part in the modern consciousness."
>>
>> Christine, a fascinating footnote [#11] on page 295 I also found
>> fascinating in discussing the founding of the Glenmore Summer School of the
>> Cultural Sciences in the Adironack Mountains of upstate New York at which
>> Harris, Dewey, Josiah Royce, and George Santayana all lectured for several
>> summers. Harris built a summer cottage for his family at Glenmore, Dewey
>> built a summer cottage on land he bought across the road from Glenmore.
>>
>> Christine, as I read this I was reflecting on what actually *mattered* to
>> these friends who created a *commons* [the Glenmore Summer School]as a way
>> of supporting each other *on the way*.
>> Then I reflected on Aristotle's notion of *common sense* as the sense that
>> develops among the five faculties of sense that create a *common*
>> perception.
>>
>> Robert was returning us exploring paradox and contradiction within our
>> *interpretations*  and *absolute spirit* as interpreted by Dewey is nothing
>> more than the human race *on the way* in its historical development.  As
>> late as 1904 Dewey argued Hegel assumed that modern consciousness, with its
>> focus on subjectivity, individuality, and freedom, is grounded in an
>> *ethical world* as REAL as the physical FROM which the individual must take
>> his cue.  In Dewey's pragmatism, he later acknowledged a continuing debt to
>> Hegel's interpretation of an ethical world. [see page 304 of Good's article]
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 9:44 AM, Christine Schweighart <
>> schweighartc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> yet intertwining with
>>> 'reality' brings in historical development of 'human culture' beyond
>>> actuality as co-presence - and in this there is a labour of love in
>>> intergenerationality of scholarship - (as Robert 's post and the
>>> article he shares shows).
>>>
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