Re: [xmca] We are all "On the way"

[Christine Schweighart <schweighartc@gmail.com>]

Dear Larry,
 I've encountered  these traditions not in an either/or - but through
academic practice where research interventions and tracing of
genealogies has its own problem-solving. The notion I was pointing to
was 'actuality' and 'hearing'  in 'moving' as you frame in your
posting and I'm considering this in  'notions' ; yet intertwining with
'reality' brings in historical development of 'human culture' beyond
actuality as co-presence - and in this there is a labour of love in
intergenerationality of scholarship - (as Robert 's post and the
article he shares shows).
There's also a difficulty of intergenerational responsibility in
caring for the environment, and both come through into how students
can  orient to 'projects' they will dedicate great parts of their
lives to. Collaborative thinking and capabilities towards
understanding educational practices which achieve generating
theoretical formation along both genealogy and future orientation in
actual practices couldn't be more pressing.

I looked at the reading of Shotter you shared a year or so ago today,
I'd put it into a wiki I've stopped writing to ( because the
technology didn't have a useful design), I was stunned to discover
that it gets found by people- I hadn't put any contact details on it -
so I have no idea what prompts this. Anyway for Uchiyama's abstract on
actuality  and auto-affection is  in this plane here's the link again
http://keynotes.wikispaces.com/Actuality+and+auto-affection
 Christine.


On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
> Christine and Robert
>
> I see some complementary explorations exploring contradiction and paradox
> whether in dialectical or hermeneutical traditions.
> Robert, you mentioned that dialectics is NOT a method or set of principles:
>
> [ROBERT] What makes dialectical thinking so difficult to
> explain is that it can only be seen in practice.
> It is not a ‘method ’or a set of principles”
> (Spencer and Krauze. 1996, p, 23).
> Dialectical thinking according to Marx is
> much more than "on the one hand and on the other hand"
> (Marx- Engels, 1953, p. 122) dialectical thought is focused
> on the process of moving from existence to essence,
> from biological being to self-actualization through praxis,
> from outward activity to inward reflection then to further activity.
> Come to think of it, that sounds a lot like Vygotsky too.
>
> This may be seen as a particular *way* or tradition or perspective of
> moving from existence to essence.
>
> Christine, you reminded me of Gadamer's concept of hermeneutics as a 3rd
> *way* to move through existence when you wrote:
>
>  I haven't found writing on the historical development of thinking
> from that point in history - and I'm not equipped for such a project.
> so for me the stance is that of your 3rd form - which is meaning full
> as 'bracketing' to me, it's an impossibility -overcoming recourse (
> value -experiencing) - there is no panacea to a bridge for such a gap
> ( Just as is 'working to produce' might not have 'bridges' across
> disciplines and traditions.
>
> I do wonder if Gadamer's notion of *understanding* may offer a particular
> *way* to proceed, different from dialectical notions but with overlapping
> questions and answers and ways of proceeding within dialogical
> conversations. Both traditions do explore the historical development of
> thinking that is not linear but rather is a *living phenomena* [organic??]
>
> Gadamer's 3rd form speaks to being *on the way*: This notion emphasizes
> there is NOT *the* hermeneutical way but rather that hermeneutical
> approaches are developing through time. Gadamer [and Hoy's interpretation
> of Gadamer] make a distinction between Gadamer and previous notions of the
> hermeneutical tradition.
>
> [GADAMER'S 3rd form]
>
>
> This form of I-Thou relations within history has a different form of
>
> hermeneutic experience. Unlike the 1st form it does not treat the other or
>
> the past as an object classifiable into properties [1st form]
>
> OR
>
> as  radically other [subjectivity or time] with values no longer shared
>
> with the present. Hermeneutic consciousness lets the tradition [as a form
>
> of consciousness] speak to the present and realizes this speaking is
>
> telling the present something about itself. Gadamer calls this form the
>
> *consciousness of standing within a still operant history* [awkward phrase
>
> but no easy translation].
>
> THIS consciousness [or self-consciousness] is most properly hermeneutical.
>
> As expressed within I-Thou relationships it neither treats the other person
>
> as an object or a means, nor ries to master the Other by suspending his
> right to meaningful statement.
>
> On the contrary,  this I-Thou relation is OPEN  and Gadamer says without
>
> this OPENNESS there can be no real human contact. He writes,
>
> "To BELONG together [Zueinandergehoren] is always at the same time to be
>
> able to listen to the other [Auf-ein-ander-Horenkonnen]
>
> Understanding for Gadamer is always a form of dialogue. Hermeneutical forms
>
> of consciousness are language phenomenon within a cultural tradition or
>
> form of life.
>
> This approach or practice, when applied, avoids the necessity of finding a
>
> *bridge* for the *gap* between past and present.  There is no need to posit
>
> some third term such as psychological empathy to provide a common link
>
> between closed off periods of time [or between two subjectivities]
>
> THIS 3rd form of consciousness [the concretization of hermeneutical
>
> consciousness]  is NOT THE OBJECT of hermeneutical understanding, but is
>
> the language, the MEDIUM, the FORM in which the understanding occurs. This
>
> form of consciousness IS to BE in a world [a form of life, a tradition]
> [another notion of being and existence].
>
>
>  This preamble is a way to situate Gadamer's understanding that
> understanding doesn't require taking opposed positions. When he was asked
> to comment on his debate with Habermas, he answered,
>
> "I mean that we [Habermas and Gadamer] hold no 'opposed' positions, rather
> that we are all 'on the way', even when we resort to writing'. Whether one
> reads something written - whether it is something like a poem by Goethe, or
> lines of verse scribbled down in the moonlight or found in a book - the  is
> not the first one addressed."
>
> In reflecting on that well-known debate between Gadamer and Habermas [which
> was a publicly argued written dialogue, a great deal of interest was
> raised. Then Gadamer goes on to reflect that people want Habermas and
> himself to engage in such a conversation again. His answer to this request
> is that conversations are not the *kind* of thing that one can program. The
> "written conversation" that occurred was,
>
> " an especially fortunate constellation, consisting of comprehensive common
> elements shared by many others, elements that could be brought into the
> written conversation from both sides."
>
> Gadamer, in exploring dialogical conversation [written and spoken] believes
> our task is to *relearn* what the Greeks showed us, namely,
>
> "to summon up the imaginative power of LIVING language for conceptual
> thinking. This doesn't mean that we should adopt Greek philosophy, but it
> does mean that we SHOULD [value presupposition] learn from it how to think
> in concepts with the help of our own spoken language".
>
> {These quotes are from a conversation between Richard Kearney and Gadamer
> in the book "Debates in Continental Philosophy Conversations with
> Contempory Thinkers}
>
> The exploration of paradox, contradiction, ambiguity, taking contrasting
> value positions, all proceeding  WITHIN plural traditions in conversation
> with the "other" seems to be one particular value presupposition that can
> facilitate moving from existence to essence [as a developing  and
> historically living phenomena].
>
> Larry
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