[Xmca-l] Re: Your views on a question.

[Harshad Dave]

Atten.: Anthony Barra and David Kellog.

Hi,

This is with reference to your replies to my message. I am thankful for the
same and regret for the delay in reply. I used the word “apartheid” just in
the sense of racism, complains of blacks/brown that they are discriminated
in social dealing by whites etc. David Kellog - Thanks for the detail
source of the word “apartheid”, however I request you to take its meaning
in the same sense as expressed above. The suggested/recommended articles
are viewed in a glancing by me; I recall I have read them (one or more) on
Academia web. You will agree their subject matter is different. Anthony
Barra – The article that was recommended by you is read by me and it
touches on various realities in the subject matter of our topic.

I just put my views against the question I asked in my message dtd. 17 June
2020.

There are two most probable answers.

1.      The turned out black European people will be the victim of racism
(discrimination) by the turned out white people from African origin.

2.      The situation remains the same and the world will see protests and
fights on an issue or against a complaining that the black European people
discriminate white people of African origin in the USA.

I leave it to the readers to give their logical consideration to the one
out of the above two, but my opinion says the second answer will hold good,
but one should not forget it is just true on hypothetical presumption.

It is a mistake to believe that *the attitude of discrimination* and *sickness
of racism *harbor in the color of the skin. In fact above altitude/sickness
is founded on the difference of *mental socio economic formation status* of
two men. There is a basic difference between the two statuses of *mental
socio economic formation *of black people of African origin and that of
white people of European origin. I believe that a mass of people
constituting a society with advanced socio economic formation has fair
chances to exploit the mass of people constituting a society with backward
socio economic formation. It is equally true for two classes of peoples at
different *mental socio economic formation status* also. But, here (in the
USA) both the classes of people are living in the same society with one
*constitution* and uniform *rule of laws*. It is absurd to believe that the
present socio economic formation of the society of the USA (21st century)
has prevailed and occupied equally and uniformly by each and every citizen
of the USA. One might find various people in the present society of the USA
with different levels of *mental socio economic formation status*. It is
really a complicated situation when the society is throughout with the
latest socio economic formation and members of the society are with varying
levels of *mental socio economic formation status* in the same society. Let
me present part of the message of Abraham Lincoln before I finish this
message.

Fourth Debate: Charleston, Illinois – September 18, 1858.

“*I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing
about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black
races, [applause]-that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making
voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to
intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there
is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe
will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and
political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do
remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I
as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position
assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that
because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be
denied everything.*”



Here it is between the lines that difference in the *mental socio economic
formation status* could be compensated to some extent, but for equality
people with backward *mental socio economic formation status* will have to
work hard to develop the same.

I clarify, neither I am in favor of nor against the victims of the issue of
discrimination and racism as far as my contemplation on the subject matter
is to be carried out. But, I just want to explain where the real cause
harbors.



Regards,



Harshad Dave

On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 6:01 PM David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Harshad:
>
> I am still a little stunned by the last post you wrote, with all the
> references to predatory shopkeepers. It sounded like the stuff of a pogrom.
> As we discussed in the "My Hometown Minneapolis" thread, the threats to
> shopkeepers in Minneapolis often targeted South Asians, and had nothing to
> do with the police (except that the police may have been involved and
> certainly profitted from the looting politically).
>
> "Apartheid" is a term invented by the South African sociologist Verwoerd,
> who studied with the Gestalists. Some Gestaltists, like Narziss Ach and
> Felix Krueger, became Nazis; Verwoerd himself became, as you probably know,
> prime minister of South Africa and brought in the system of apartheid which
> Gandhi struggled against during his early years. The term used in my
> hometown Minneapolis is not "apartheid" but segregation: it is
> euphemistically referred to as "redlining" (by insurance companies) and
> "racial covenants" but not as "apartheid".
>
> Segregation and Jim Crow in Minneapolis is not based on pigmentation. Many
> "white" people are darker than blacks, and many black people are lighter
> than whites, because of the centuries of rape and the enthusiasm of slave
> owners for the practice of selling their own children. The last time I
> visited the "housing project"near where I grew up it was full of Hmong from
> Southeast Asia. Segregation in Minneapolis is above all a matter of class.
>
> David Kellogg
> Sangmyung University
>
> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
> Outlines, Spring 2020
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!XRytKQaemHdXQnE1_alDup1Q9QJOthSkW9c8JX9jQki7Qjz8k4gAV8Ye0cXZqOJrRzzcAA$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!Q_T1T-yScWKk-O8fAQy2MGeFpRYlWFTJaOfWiNV6OlC8kQDKN2JeAffKU6p3X_X_g6SDzw$>
> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *Volume
> One: Foundations of Pedology*"
>  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!XRytKQaemHdXQnE1_alDup1Q9QJOthSkW9c8JX9jQki7Qjz8k4gAV8Ye0cXZqOJfYNiiYw$ 
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!Q_T1T-yScWKk-O8fAQy2MGeFpRYlWFTJaOfWiNV6OlC8kQDKN2JeAffKU6p3X_VyIA0yng$>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 4:16 PM Harshad Dave <hhdave15@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dear all there,
>>
>> We all are aware of the event of the death of George Floyd in the USA
>> under police custody. There are flows of opinions, comments and views on
>> the event with different aspects all over the world. There are debates and
>> discussions on the event on innumerable web sites, we find them in
>> newspapers and among the talks of people at private and public places. We
>> just do not talk about riots and other events happened under agony and out
>> burst of anger on the unfortunate death of Floyd, however, voice against
>> apartheid was the major cry behind them.
>> Though there are various vital aspects of the event, *apartheid*
>> remained prime of them.
>> I simply ask one question to my friends who read this post.
>>
>> Let us hypothetically presume, on one day fine morning, when people of
>> the USA awake, they find that skin color of all the blacks is changed to
>> perfectly white like european people and the skin color of all the
>> europeans changed to black like negro.
>> I ask my friends, "What will be the status of *apartheid* in this
>> situation?"
>>
>> NB: I write one article on the ill fated event and its aspects. Your
>> views on the above question will help me to write my views with more
>> clarity in the article.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Harshad Dave
>>
>>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200621/5e4469f8/attachment.html