[Xmca-l] Re: A contribution of value, I hope

Fri Jun 19 17:35:14 PDT 2020

It's great, Anthony--better than the original by half!

N.B. "Meta-function" is a function-of-functions. So there is only ONE
textual metafunction which INCLUDES functions like Theme (and subfunctions
like "Topical Theme"). Thre is only ONE interpersonal metafunction, which
INCLUDES functions like Mood (and subfunctions like Subject and Finite).
There is only ONE ideational metafunction which INCLUDES functions like
Participant (and subfunctions like Determiner, Epithet, Classifier, and
Thing).

I think you did the right thing in cutting to the classroom chase. But the
link between Halliday and Vygotsky is sometimes made in pretty Polly-anna
terms (hey, they both think social interaction is good for you). Halliday
doesn't really have any use for the concept of "mind" (although he does use
the concept of consciousness). Vygotsky doesn't really use the concept of
metafunction (although he does distinguish between functions). To a lot of
people, that suggests mutual repulsion; to me it suggests mutual dependency
or at least very strong magnetism that Halliday would call
"complementarity"..

David Kellogg
Sangmyung University

New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
Outlines, Spring 2020
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!QT8_RKuDxPBOPJ-QtyBofAJ4F7MYVLHeIIc4G8WzvkhAAL-lxLqWvlX_y6qIoKuLSFtKYQ$ 
New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological
Works* *Volume
One: Foundations of Pedology*"
 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!QT8_RKuDxPBOPJ-QtyBofAJ4F7MYVLHeIIc4G8WzvkhAAL-lxLqWvlX_y6qIoKvalO6XMg$ 

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 8:53 AM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thank you to David Kellogg for weighing in on my
> Halliday/threshold-concept question!
>
> David, I've taken your answer, edited it a tad, and added some light
> annotations here: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/6qf1qz__;!!Mih3wA!QT8_RKuDxPBOPJ-QtyBofAJ4F7MYVLHeIIc4G8WzvkhAAL-lxLqWvlX_y6qIoKsmjk-uBw$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/6qf1qz__;!!Mih3wA!R1tuEz28TKCRX-z854TQcafClzwE-T5yfevnoxkw5DRwjpbz239rg0baB8eFK_R16hv7mQ$>
>
> Please let me know if anything needs changing; I don't want to publish any
> misinformation.
>
> Thank you again,
>
> Anthony
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 9:21 PM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, David -- for the reply and for sharing the video. I hope it will
>> be useful.
>>
>> I've always thought of the Burkean parlor as a metaphorical place where
>> ideas get exchanged, sometimes combatively, sometimes while doing dishes or
>> tidying up, but more ideally (in my hopes) via productive conversation or
>> productive dialectic.  But really, it wasn't really necessary for me to
>> include the Burke quote at all, as the proper emphasis should have been on
>> Nikolai's contributions.
>>
>> But I'm glad I did mention Burke's parlor, in that it sparked some
>> interesting replies, including your thought-provoking allusion to
>> Halliday.  I like that you bring him up often!
>>
>> In fact . . . https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx3H5uAZIoI__;!!Mih3wA!QT8_RKuDxPBOPJ-QtyBofAJ4F7MYVLHeIIc4G8WzvkhAAL-lxLqWvlX_y6qIoKtvPLtQug$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx3H5uAZIoI__;!!Mih3wA!R1tuEz28TKCRX-z854TQcafClzwE-T5yfevnoxkw5DRwjpbz239rg0baB8eFK_S3c1OFQQ$>
>> (What do you say? Can this be addressed to lay people - teachers especially
>> - in like 3-5 minutes or so?)
>>
>> Thank you again,
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 8:19 AM David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Anthony--
>>>
>>> I shared it with my ex-grad. (I am marrying her in the fall--I mean, I'm
>>> marrying her to somebody else; when you are a professor in Korea, you are
>>> often called on to perform the actual ceremony, so long as you haven't had
>>> too many marriages of your own). She is doing a PhD in early years at the
>>> University of Regina in Canada, and she has the usual problem: you can't
>>> just ask questions about what the kids are thinking or saying or even
>>> doing, because the thing you are interested in studying isn't all there
>>> yet. Her super, selected on the same basis as we select people for wedding
>>> ceremonies here in Korea, is a successful questionnaire-and-survey person
>>> and doesn't see this is a problem.
>>>
>>> I think Burke's metaphor is really like studying a narwhal by analogy
>>> with a unicorn, or a dinosaur as a kind of Chinese dragon. Burke wants us
>>> to understand something real and concrete like the relationship between lit
>>> and crit simply by thinking of something completely unreal and
>>> impossible--a kind of academic pugilism where there is neither beginning
>>> nor end and nothing is at stake but "tenor". It's interesting that he uses
>>> the word "tenor" to describe seizing the tenets of an argument by
>>> grabbing one side or another rather than grasping the issue as a process
>>> from beginning to end. "Tenor" is the term Halliday uses to mean the
>>> interpersonal back-and-forth of a context as opposed to its
>>> representational or textual qualities.
>>>
>>> But doesn't Burke's metaphor really preclude what Nikolai describes so
>>> well in his video? As Nikolai says, you gotta start BEFORE the process is
>>> underway if you want to understand the process as a whole, you need to
>>> grasp it causally and dynamically and not just grab who's in
>>> and out; you need to consider the process as becoming something and not
>>> just  being and being and being. All three of these conditions are
>>> explicitly denied by the Burkean parlor metaphor, aren't they? .
>>>
>>> David Kellogg
>>> Sangmyung University
>>>
>>> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
>>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!QT8_RKuDxPBOPJ-QtyBofAJ4F7MYVLHeIIc4G8WzvkhAAL-lxLqWvlX_y6qIoKuLSFtKYQ$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!Ud9nP0Wfd21IyOKhvifoZ9EITAift85La2K_iFgYk5BCRbGVioK-XSnKy-ifYICj5d1_yg$>
>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological
>>> Works* *Volume One: Foundations of Pedology*"
>>>  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!QT8_RKuDxPBOPJ-QtyBofAJ4F7MYVLHeIIc4G8WzvkhAAL-lxLqWvlX_y6qIoKvalO6XMg$ 
>>>
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!Ud9nP0Wfd21IyOKhvifoZ9EITAift85La2K_iFgYk5BCRbGVioK-XSnKy-ifYICMY966cA$>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 12:35 AM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In our 8th grade classroom, we have used Burke's (1941) "parlor"
>>>> metaphor to support work on literary themes, argumentation, media analysis,
>>>> role-playing, and class discussion:
>>>>
>>>> "Imagine that you enter a parlor. You come late. When you arrive,
>>>>> others have long preceded you, and they are engaged in a heated
>>>>> discussion, a discussion too heated for them to pause and tell you
>>>>> exactly what it is about. In fact, the discussion had already begun
>>>>> long before any of them got there, so that no one present is
>>>>> qualified to retrace for you all the steps that had gone before. You
>>>>> listen for a while, until you decide that you have caught the tenor
>>>>> of the argument; then you put in your oar. Someone answers you; you
>>>>> answer him; another comes to your defense; another aligns himself
>>>>> against you, to either the embarrassment or gratification of your
>>>>> opponent, depending upon the quality of your ally's assistance.
>>>>> However, the discussion is interminable. The hour grows late, you
>>>>> must depart. And you do depart, with the discussion still vigorously
>>>>> in progress." Kenneth Burke, *The Philosophy of Literary Form*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In 1996, Russell Hunt, Gordon Wells, and others had an interesting xmca
>>>> exchange on the topic of "Burke's Parlor," including Hunt's observation
>>>> that "Gordon's narrative, which I think I prefer to Burke's, leaves out the
>>>> agnostic character of the discussion: in Burke, writing in 1941, the
>>>> assumption was that the conversation HAD to be a contest."  I don't think
>>>> it does.
>>>>
>>>> Whether contest, dialogue, dialectic, or mere background noise, I hope
>>>> this latest conversational turn is a contribution of value:
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEK3JV1Ux_5WEs1bAjoH_AXCxFMVAF6bF__;!!Mih3wA!QT8_RKuDxPBOPJ-QtyBofAJ4F7MYVLHeIIc4G8WzvkhAAL-lxLqWvlX_y6qIoKuUUL_L9w$ 
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEK3JV1Ux_5WEs1bAjoH_AXCxFMVAF6bF__;!!Mih3wA!S7ys-XdCYKh3HU5OKRoNJuEgk62EmIhOla1afIpa9D1qrvWwtfoGFtCYeUPWbash32dSWA$>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As a non-expert, I have been trying to learn in public, and I can
>>>> promise that your current or future students will find this helpful. If
>>>> this statement sounds reasonable, please feel free to share.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> Anthony
>>>>
>>>> P.S. The two videos in the playlist are on the longer side; there was
>>>> no way around that.
>>>> While not a substitute, this collection of 2-3 minute snippets does
>>>> contain a fair amount of overlap:
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEK3JV1Ux_5W2ZfG2I-J7prbfDUK_dIlo__;!!Mih3wA!QT8_RKuDxPBOPJ-QtyBofAJ4F7MYVLHeIIc4G8WzvkhAAL-lxLqWvlX_y6qIoKtx0sIXrA$ 
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEK3JV1Ux_5W2ZfG2I-J7prbfDUK_dIlo__;!!Mih3wA!S7ys-XdCYKh3HU5OKRoNJuEgk62EmIhOla1afIpa9D1qrvWwtfoGFtCYeUPWbat46QJmlQ$>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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