[Xmca-l] Re: A contribution of value, I hope

Fri Jun 19 16:50:31 PDT 2020

Thank you to David Kellogg for weighing in on my Halliday/threshold-concept
question!

David, I've taken your answer, edited it a tad, and added some light
annotations here: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/6qf1qz__;!!Mih3wA!R1tuEz28TKCRX-z854TQcafClzwE-T5yfevnoxkw5DRwjpbz239rg0baB8eFK_R16hv7mQ$ 

Please let me know if anything needs changing; I don't want to publish any
misinformation.

Thank you again,

Anthony

On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 9:21 PM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks, David -- for the reply and for sharing the video. I hope it will
> be useful.
>
> I've always thought of the Burkean parlor as a metaphorical place where
> ideas get exchanged, sometimes combatively, sometimes while doing dishes or
> tidying up, but more ideally (in my hopes) via productive conversation or
> productive dialectic.  But really, it wasn't really necessary for me to
> include the Burke quote at all, as the proper emphasis should have been on
> Nikolai's contributions.
>
> But I'm glad I did mention Burke's parlor, in that it sparked some
> interesting replies, including your thought-provoking allusion to
> Halliday.  I like that you bring him up often!
>
> In fact . . . https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx3H5uAZIoI__;!!Mih3wA!R1tuEz28TKCRX-z854TQcafClzwE-T5yfevnoxkw5DRwjpbz239rg0baB8eFK_S3c1OFQQ$   (What do you
> say? Can this be addressed to lay people - teachers especially - in like
> 3-5 minutes or so?)
>
> Thank you again,
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 8:19 AM David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Anthony--
>>
>> I shared it with my ex-grad. (I am marrying her in the fall--I mean, I'm
>> marrying her to somebody else; when you are a professor in Korea, you are
>> often called on to perform the actual ceremony, so long as you haven't had
>> too many marriages of your own). She is doing a PhD in early years at the
>> University of Regina in Canada, and she has the usual problem: you can't
>> just ask questions about what the kids are thinking or saying or even
>> doing, because the thing you are interested in studying isn't all there
>> yet. Her super, selected on the same basis as we select people for wedding
>> ceremonies here in Korea, is a successful questionnaire-and-survey person
>> and doesn't see this is a problem.
>>
>> I think Burke's metaphor is really like studying a narwhal by analogy
>> with a unicorn, or a dinosaur as a kind of Chinese dragon. Burke wants us
>> to understand something real and concrete like the relationship between lit
>> and crit simply by thinking of something completely unreal and
>> impossible--a kind of academic pugilism where there is neither beginning
>> nor end and nothing is at stake but "tenor". It's interesting that he uses
>> the word "tenor" to describe seizing the tenets of an argument by
>> grabbing one side or another rather than grasping the issue as a process
>> from beginning to end. "Tenor" is the term Halliday uses to mean the
>> interpersonal back-and-forth of a context as opposed to its
>> representational or textual qualities.
>>
>> But doesn't Burke's metaphor really preclude what Nikolai describes so
>> well in his video? As Nikolai says, you gotta start BEFORE the process is
>> underway if you want to understand the process as a whole, you need to
>> grasp it causally and dynamically and not just grab who's in
>> and out; you need to consider the process as becoming something and not
>> just  being and being and being. All three of these conditions are
>> explicitly denied by the Burkean parlor metaphor, aren't they? .
>>
>> David Kellogg
>> Sangmyung University
>>
>> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual and a manifesto.
>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!R1tuEz28TKCRX-z854TQcafClzwE-T5yfevnoxkw5DRwjpbz239rg0baB8eFK_TU0BlGVQ$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!Ud9nP0Wfd21IyOKhvifoZ9EITAift85La2K_iFgYk5BCRbGVioK-XSnKy-ifYICj5d1_yg$>
>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: *L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works* *Volume
>> One: Foundations of Pedology*"
>>  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!R1tuEz28TKCRX-z854TQcafClzwE-T5yfevnoxkw5DRwjpbz239rg0baB8eFK_Q8QHppIQ$ 
>>
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!Ud9nP0Wfd21IyOKhvifoZ9EITAift85La2K_iFgYk5BCRbGVioK-XSnKy-ifYICMY966cA$>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 12:35 AM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In our 8th grade classroom, we have used Burke's (1941) "parlor"
>>> metaphor to support work on literary themes, argumentation, media analysis,
>>> role-playing, and class discussion:
>>>
>>> "Imagine that you enter a parlor. You come late. When you arrive,
>>>> others have long preceded you, and they are engaged in a heated
>>>> discussion, a discussion too heated for them to pause and tell you
>>>> exactly what it is about. In fact, the discussion had already begun
>>>> long before any of them got there, so that no one present is qualified
>>>> to retrace for you all the steps that had gone before. You listen for
>>>> a while, until you decide that you have caught the tenor of the
>>>> argument; then you put in your oar. Someone answers you; you answer
>>>> him; another comes to your defense; another aligns himself against
>>>> you, to either the embarrassment or gratification of your opponent,
>>>> depending upon the quality of your ally's assistance. However, the
>>>> discussion is interminable. The hour grows late, you must depart. And you
>>>> do depart, with the discussion still vigorously in progress." Kenneth
>>>> Burke, *The Philosophy of Literary Form*
>>>
>>>
>>> In 1996, Russell Hunt, Gordon Wells, and others had an interesting xmca
>>> exchange on the topic of "Burke's Parlor," including Hunt's observation
>>> that "Gordon's narrative, which I think I prefer to Burke's, leaves out the
>>> agnostic character of the discussion: in Burke, writing in 1941, the
>>> assumption was that the conversation HAD to be a contest."  I don't think
>>> it does.
>>>
>>> Whether contest, dialogue, dialectic, or mere background noise, I hope
>>> this latest conversational turn is a contribution of value:
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEK3JV1Ux_5WEs1bAjoH_AXCxFMVAF6bF__;!!Mih3wA!R1tuEz28TKCRX-z854TQcafClzwE-T5yfevnoxkw5DRwjpbz239rg0baB8eFK_Tm30CphA$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEK3JV1Ux_5WEs1bAjoH_AXCxFMVAF6bF__;!!Mih3wA!S7ys-XdCYKh3HU5OKRoNJuEgk62EmIhOla1afIpa9D1qrvWwtfoGFtCYeUPWbash32dSWA$>
>>>
>>>
>>> As a non-expert, I have been trying to learn in public, and I can
>>> promise that your current or future students will find this helpful. If
>>> this statement sounds reasonable, please feel free to share.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Anthony
>>>
>>> P.S. The two videos in the playlist are on the longer side; there was no
>>> way around that.
>>> While not a substitute, this collection of 2-3 minute snippets does
>>> contain a fair amount of overlap:
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEK3JV1Ux_5W2ZfG2I-J7prbfDUK_dIlo__;!!Mih3wA!R1tuEz28TKCRX-z854TQcafClzwE-T5yfevnoxkw5DRwjpbz239rg0baB8eFK_TeqLQu6g$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEK3JV1Ux_5W2ZfG2I-J7prbfDUK_dIlo__;!!Mih3wA!S7ys-XdCYKh3HU5OKRoNJuEgk62EmIhOla1afIpa9D1qrvWwtfoGFtCYeUPWbat46QJmlQ$>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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