[Xmca-l] Re: Philosophie des Geistes?

Andy Blunden andyb@marxists.org
Sat Jul 25 01:42:03 PDT 2020


Please explain, Mike. What boot? What am /I/ missing?

andy

------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Hegel for Social Movements <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!Rh24wCoadXz_rphQ50bNGcFrTsP3KADug8rGhyyHsvHKEj8TTrej9qJot19z0fnVpeM91A$ >
Home Page <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!Rh24wCoadXz_rphQ50bNGcFrTsP3KADug8rGhyyHsvHKEj8TTrej9qJot19z0fmP_K6OIw$ >
On 25/07/2020 12:48 pm, mike cole wrote:
> Why restrict ourselves to observing the boot, Andy? Why 
> not study the process of the boot's coming into being 
> historically and in contemporary activities that bring boots
> into being? In psychology a focus on products not 
> processes is a constant, justified complaint of critical 
> scholars I have been reading.
> What am I missing?
> mike
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 2:05 AM Andy Blunden 
> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>
>     Collingwood is great. Hard to get hold of work I think.
>
>     And yes, /Geist /is an activity. Many writers of our
>     day agree with that.
>
>     andy
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------
>     *Andy Blunden*
>     Hegel for Social Movements
>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!QF2Dcu6tNVtc6QgFIIOvgcPzUedUPmYqhk6DpQSkkz2IHkcFeGKyJETmpyCEKAFo2KY2Qg$>
>     Home Page
>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!QF2Dcu6tNVtc6QgFIIOvgcPzUedUPmYqhk6DpQSkkz2IHkcFeGKyJETmpyCEKAHghf0mpA$>
>
>     On 24/07/2020 6:28 pm, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote:
>>     Mind, Hegel and Collingwood
>>
>>     The mind seems to be not so much that which thinks as
>>     the thinking itself; it is not an active thing so
>>     much  as an activity (Religion & Philosophy 1916
>>     p.100) -  if you want to know the mind of a cobbler,
>>     then study the boots he has made
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------
>>     *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>     <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of
>>     Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org>
>>     <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>
>>     *Sent:* 24 July 2020 05:04
>>     *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>     <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>     <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>     <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>     *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Philosophie des Geistes?
>>
>>     There is nothing "crude" about Hegel's Philosophy of
>>     Spirit. It has almost innumerable grades of mind
>>     between the indeterminate "feeling" which might cause
>>     a new-born to cry without any kind of awareness, up
>>     to political action to resolve the social problem at
>>     the root of the "disturbance." All these are states
>>     of a whole body and its relation to its environment.
>>     Hegel does talk about "expulsion" where are person
>>     takes action - shouting, sobbing, .. - to relieve the
>>     feeling, a process which can be more or less
>>     rational. But he does not have a mental state over
>>     there and a body over there, or one expressing itself
>>     in the other. Probably my analogy of hand-waving was
>>     inappropriate. That's obviously not the same as your
>>     hair standing on end when you get a creepy feeling or
>>     the stomach ache which tells you it's dinner time.
>>
>>     andy
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------
>>     *Andy Blunden*
>>     Hegel for Social Movements
>>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u5bbHvFUA$>
>>     Home Page
>>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u6pRGACdQ$>
>>
>>     On 24/07/2020 7:01 am, David Kellogg wrote:
>>>     Well, it's not me turning it around, of course. The
>>>     James-Lange theory is what it is: you perceive
>>>     something, your viscera or vasomotor muscles
>>>     respond, and the emotion is the feeling of that
>>>     happening to you. Lange, at any rate, seems to be
>>>     thinking of the male sexual response.
>>>
>>>     I think that's why Dewey says that Hegel's
>>>     anticipation of the theory is crude. Vygotsky
>>>     wouldn't (and doesn't) agree that an emotion is
>>>     "expressed". An emotion is not a mental state
>>>     of affairs expressed in physiological changes in the
>>>     viscera/vasomotor muscles or contrariwise a change
>>>     in the visceral/vascular state of affairs expressed
>>>     in a mental one. (For that very reason, I think that
>>>     Vygotsky wouldn't agree with Andy's waving analogy....)
>>>
>>>     Spinoza uses the term "affect" or
>>>     "affection" instead. It means more or less what it
>>>     sounds like: the way in which a body is affected by
>>>     the environment and vice versa. This can either
>>>     increase or decrease the potential for a body
>>>     for activity. The problem is that in order to make
>>>     this a theory of specifically human emotions, this
>>>     activity has to include the "activity" of making
>>>     meanings, and Spinoza can't seem to address THAT
>>>     issue without slipping into psycho-physical
>>>     parallelism. (Halliday can, though....)
>>>     :
>>>     David Kellogg
>>>     Sangmyung University
>>>
>>>     New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual
>>>     and a manifesto.
>>>     Outlines, Spring 2020
>>>     https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!Rh24wCoadXz_rphQ50bNGcFrTsP3KADug8rGhyyHsvHKEj8TTrej9qJot19z0fkAnYf0-w$ 
>>>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!QLEoxL29F3RatvgkaIG1vsUhEgaWkdE-vCDs0vMv8gD5JVN33eCV8_ZTlPUZ5zPbYeeQHQ$>
>>>     New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: /L.S.
>>>     Vygotsky's Pedological Works/ /Volume One:
>>>     Foundations of Pedology/"
>>>     https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!Rh24wCoadXz_rphQ50bNGcFrTsP3KADug8rGhyyHsvHKEj8TTrej9qJot19z0fl8br_5Zg$ 
>>>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!QLEoxL29F3RatvgkaIG1vsUhEgaWkdE-vCDs0vMv8gD5JVN33eCV8_ZTlPUZ5zOCrzEKFA$>
>>>
>>>
>>>     On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 8:19 PM Andy Blunden
>>>     <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         No, don't turn it around. The point is that
>>>         organs are subordinate parts of the whole
>>>         organism. The emotion /is/ the state of a whole
>>>         organism, in particular, a mental state. Like a
>>>         hand expresses a feeling when we wave to someone.
>>>
>>>         andy
>>>
>>>         ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>         *Andy Blunden*
>>>         Hegel for Social Movements
>>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!W1x0zBm8fkXksY2M64OKgpNL_TPx1e8eTQyWJEtxUBueZNW1leqHSuR9yBEWIW_pdhtxwg$>
>>>         Home Page
>>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!W1x0zBm8fkXksY2M64OKgpNL_TPx1e8eTQyWJEtxUBueZNW1leqHSuR9yBEWIW9bL-5LGQ$>
>>>
>>>         On 23/07/2020 8:55 pm, David Kellogg wrote:
>>>>         Thanks, Andy--this is it!
>>>>
>>>>         "In physiology the viscera and the organs are
>>>>         treated merely as parts subservient to the
>>>>         animal organism; but they form at the same time
>>>>         a physical system for the expression of mental
>>>>         states, and in this way they get quite another
>>>>         interpretation."
>>>>
>>>>         The only problem is the word "expression". In
>>>>         the James-Lange theory, the mental states are
>>>>         the expression of the viscera and the
>>>>         organs. But perhaps that's what Hegel really
>>>>         means here: the viscera and organs are a system
>>>>         that expresses a state which we interpret as an
>>>>         emotion.
>>>>
>>>>         (I remember a dear friend of mine getting a
>>>>         messy divorce and remarking, when I worried
>>>>         that he was losing a lot of weight, that it
>>>>         wasn't his heart that was broken but his
>>>>         stomach....)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         David Kellogg
>>>>         Sangmyung University
>>>>
>>>>         New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A
>>>>         manual and a manifesto.
>>>>         Outlines, Spring 2020
>>>>         https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!Rh24wCoadXz_rphQ50bNGcFrTsP3KADug8rGhyyHsvHKEj8TTrej9qJot19z0fkAnYf0-w$ 
>>>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!TttD-npmriYNiq_GkGHggjRPJwdnhAwRmpOFFclfTRlXC2fTkBviD-tAkaQPh-R8158beQ$>
>>>>         New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: /L.S.
>>>>         Vygotsky's Pedological Works/ /Volume One:
>>>>         Foundations of Pedology/"
>>>>         https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!Rh24wCoadXz_rphQ50bNGcFrTsP3KADug8rGhyyHsvHKEj8TTrej9qJot19z0fl8br_5Zg$ 
>>>>         <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TttD-npmriYNiq_GkGHggjRPJwdnhAwRmpOFFclfTRlXC2fTkBviD-tAkaQPh-Q7yWc-iw$>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 5:19 PM Andy Blunden
>>>>         <andyb@marxists.org
>>>>         <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>             If you're interested in s. 401, then you'll
>>>>             probably be interested in 402 as well.
>>>>
>>>>             One other possibility: The "official" way
>>>>             of citing Hegel nowadays is to cite the
>>>>             page no. in the authoritative version of
>>>>             /Hegel Werke/. The German word for "page"
>>>>             is /Seite/, so you would say "S. 401" of
>>>>             the /Enc/, This turns out also to be an
>>>>             interesting passage of the Subjective
>>>>             Spirit, on Self-consciousness, concerned
>>>>             with the infamous Master-Slave dialectic,
>>>>             though in a much reduced form, not like in
>>>>             the /Phenomenology of Spirit/.
>>>>
>>>>             See p. 401 in the other attachment,
>>>>             ENZYKl3.PDF, in German. English translation
>>>>             is here:
>>>>             https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/suconsci.htm*SU428__;Iw!!Mih3wA!Rh24wCoadXz_rphQ50bNGcFrTsP3KADug8rGhyyHsvHKEj8TTrej9qJot19z0fn1SOhZqQ$ 
>>>>             <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/suconsci.htm*SU428__;Iw!!Mih3wA!V5yS3WiqsE4SSOtcY1SJElXpnzzhFH035NnO1lZ49z3QJYH4kQO68Wccu2Y86C642xXiTQ$>
>>>>
>>>>             Andy
>>>>
>>>>             ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>             *Andy Blunden*
>>>>             Hegel for Social Movements
>>>>             <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!V5yS3WiqsE4SSOtcY1SJElXpnzzhFH035NnO1lZ49z3QJYH4kQO68Wccu2Y86C4MltIy3g$>
>>>>             Home Page
>>>>             <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!V5yS3WiqsE4SSOtcY1SJElXpnzzhFH035NnO1lZ49z3QJYH4kQO68Wccu2Y86C7AtYM8hA$>
>>>>
>>>>             On 23/07/2020 5:47 pm, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>             The Philosophy of Spirit is the Third Part
>>>>>             of the Encyclopaedia, itself composed of
>>>>>             three parts:
>>>>>
>>>>>               * Subjective Spirit, which is commonly
>>>>>                 taken as Psychology
>>>>>               * Objective Spirit, which is commonly
>>>>>                 taken as Social Theory, and
>>>>>               * Absolute Spirit, which covers Art,
>>>>>                 religion, Science and Philosophy.
>>>>>
>>>>>             The Encyclopaedia has numbered paragraphs.
>>>>>             These do vary between 2 or  editions, but
>>>>>             these will be limited probably by those
>>>>>             translated into English,
>>>>>
>>>>>             I would start with the 1930 version"
>>>>>             https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/susoul.htm*SU401__;Iw!!Mih3wA!Rh24wCoadXz_rphQ50bNGcFrTsP3KADug8rGhyyHsvHKEj8TTrej9qJot19z0fk6rIZ3Zg$ 
>>>>>             <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/susoul.htm*SU401__;Iw!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj0va8zujw$>
>>>>>             - a very early stage in the development of
>>>>>             mental life, or.
>>>>>
>>>>>             The 1817 version has
>>>>>             https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/sspirit.htm*SS399__;Iw!!Mih3wA!Rh24wCoadXz_rphQ50bNGcFrTsP3KADug8rGhyyHsvHKEj8TTrej9qJot19z0fmbUsjvRA$ 
>>>>>             <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/sspirit.htm*SS399__;Iw!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj24gIDBAA$>
>>>>>             - this version puts s. 401 at the
>>>>>             beginning of a version of Objective Spirit.
>>>>>
>>>>>             The 1830 one, above, has a long Note to it
>>>>>             written by his students on the basis of
>>>>>             Hegel's lectures which is a long discourse
>>>>>             on the development of thinking from
>>>>>             sensation. I am thinking this is what you
>>>>>             mean. I will photocopy it and send it on.
>>>>>
>>>>>             Andy
>>>>>
>>>>>             ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>             *Andy Blunden*
>>>>>             Hegel for Social Movements
>>>>>             <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj2Rs_DLCQ$>
>>>>>             Home Page
>>>>>             <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj0L0JHIrA$>
>>>>>
>>>>>             On 23/07/2020 5:09 pm, David Kellogg wrote:
>>>>>>             We are trying to turn Vygotsky's
>>>>>>             "Teaching on Emotion" into one of those
>>>>>>             cartoon books that are so popular here in
>>>>>>             Korea (e.g. the "Why?" series). It's not
>>>>>>             Vygotsky for dummies, but it will have a
>>>>>>             lot of pictures with questions and
>>>>>>             answers alongside Vygotsky's rather
>>>>>>             difficult text.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             We've got to figure out the text first.
>>>>>>             For example, what does John Dewey mean
>>>>>>             when he says:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             "On the historical side, it may be worth
>>>>>>             noting that a crude anticipation of
>>>>>>             James' theory is found in Hegel's
>>>>>>             Philosophie des Geistes, 401."?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             Did Hegel ever write a Philosophie des
>>>>>>             Geistes? If so, does the number refer to
>>>>>>             a page number or a section or what?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brocku.ca/MeadProject/Dewey/Dewey_1895.html__;!!Mih3wA!Rh24wCoadXz_rphQ50bNGcFrTsP3KADug8rGhyyHsvHKEj8TTrej9qJot19z0fkD8GPtvw$ 
>>>>>>             <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brocku.ca/MeadProject/Dewey/Dewey_1895.html__;!!Mih3wA!RLGVUv48gomTR2KJ99jcR-ruYcur4TKLR3u-7WeR_HhShIfYJpHP0U7EwICkluTj4uvZOA$>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             David Kellogg
>>>>>>             Sangmyung University
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam:
>>>>>>             A manual and a manifesto.
>>>>>>             Outlines, Spring 2020
>>>>>>             https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!Rh24wCoadXz_rphQ50bNGcFrTsP3KADug8rGhyyHsvHKEj8TTrej9qJot19z0fkAnYf0-w$ 
>>>>>>             <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!RLGVUv48gomTR2KJ99jcR-ruYcur4TKLR3u-7WeR_HhShIfYJpHP0U7EwICkluSzhBnr9w$>
>>>>>>             New Translation with Nikolai Veresov:
>>>>>>             /L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works/
>>>>>>             /Volume One: Foundations of Pedology/"
>>>>>>             https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!Rh24wCoadXz_rphQ50bNGcFrTsP3KADug8rGhyyHsvHKEj8TTrej9qJot19z0fl8br_5Zg$ 
>>>>>>             <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!RLGVUv48gomTR2KJ99jcR-ruYcur4TKLR3u-7WeR_HhShIfYJpHP0U7EwICkluRBlvE9VA$>
>>>>
>
>
> -- 
>
>
>   IAngelus Novus
>   <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelus_Novus__;!!Mih3wA!TdBQQPR-bTnIx9Yw4iUDrSZjBM8SLdsDSSgJWTB1zVuHNiaB834h-O5LHdkFFcAZeBSdQQ$>
>
>   The Angel's View of History is looking as plausible in
>   2020 as it did to Walter Benjamin & Klee in 1940
>
>   ---------------------------------------------
>
> Cultural Praxis Website: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!Rh24wCoadXz_rphQ50bNGcFrTsP3KADug8rGhyyHsvHKEj8TTrej9qJot19z0fl_SsMZSA$  
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!TdBQQPR-bTnIx9Yw4iUDrSZjBM8SLdsDSSgJWTB1zVuHNiaB834h-O5LHdkFFcB7eRB5Zw$>
> Re-generating CHAT Website: re-generatingchat.com 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://re-generatingchat.com__;!!Mih3wA!TdBQQPR-bTnIx9Yw4iUDrSZjBM8SLdsDSSgJWTB1zVuHNiaB834h-O5LHdkFFcDhjnRRpA$>
> Archival resources website: lchc.ucsd.edu 
> <http://lchc.ucsd.edu>.
> Narrative history of LCHC: lchcautobio.ucsd.edu 
> <http://lchcautobio.ucsd.edu>.
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.ucsd.edu/pipermail/xmca-l/attachments/20200725/d2c2a69e/attachment.html 


More information about the xmca-l mailing list