[Xmca-l] Re: Philosophie des Geistes?
Andy Blunden
andyb@marxists.org
Sat Jul 25 01:50:19 PDT 2020
Oh, I see: "if you want to know the mind of a cobbler, then
study the boots he has made."
The focus on the object of activity to which Collingwood
directs our attention, should not, I think, be seen as
excluding understanding of the activity. He is saying: don't
look inside his head, look at what he is /doing/, his
object-oriented activity. True, there are different ways of
making boots of the same quality, and the concept is
includes /how/ the boot is produced as well as /what/ was
produced,
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Hegel for Social Movements <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!TfzgjLzqkc8JVlKmicTaLZMFJ8xx0betSNkstzweksdGg317CEc4oiSiGeNIzuH12f4l8Q$ >
Home Page <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!TfzgjLzqkc8JVlKmicTaLZMFJ8xx0betSNkstzweksdGg317CEc4oiSiGeNIzuG4Wc8m2w$ >
On 25/07/2020 12:48 pm, mike cole wrote:
> Why restrict ourselves to observing the boot, Andy? Why
> not study the process of the boot's coming into being
> historically and in contemporary activities that bring boots
> into being? In psychology a focus on products not
> processes is a constant, justified complaint of critical
> scholars I have been reading.
> What am I missing?
> mike
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 2:05 AM Andy Blunden
> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>
> Collingwood is great. Hard to get hold of work I think.
>
> And yes, /Geist /is an activity. Many writers of our
> day agree with that.
>
> andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Hegel for Social Movements
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!QF2Dcu6tNVtc6QgFIIOvgcPzUedUPmYqhk6DpQSkkz2IHkcFeGKyJETmpyCEKAFo2KY2Qg$>
> Home Page
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!QF2Dcu6tNVtc6QgFIIOvgcPzUedUPmYqhk6DpQSkkz2IHkcFeGKyJETmpyCEKAHghf0mpA$>
>
> On 24/07/2020 6:28 pm, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote:
>> Mind, Hegel and Collingwood
>>
>> The mind seems to be not so much that which thinks as
>> the thinking itself; it is not an active thing so
>> much as an activity (Religion & Philosophy 1916
>> p.100) - if you want to know the mind of a cobbler,
>> then study the boots he has made
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of
>> Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org>
>> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>
>> *Sent:* 24 July 2020 05:04
>> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Philosophie des Geistes?
>>
>> There is nothing "crude" about Hegel's Philosophy of
>> Spirit. It has almost innumerable grades of mind
>> between the indeterminate "feeling" which might cause
>> a new-born to cry without any kind of awareness, up
>> to political action to resolve the social problem at
>> the root of the "disturbance." All these are states
>> of a whole body and its relation to its environment.
>> Hegel does talk about "expulsion" where are person
>> takes action - shouting, sobbing, .. - to relieve the
>> feeling, a process which can be more or less
>> rational. But he does not have a mental state over
>> there and a body over there, or one expressing itself
>> in the other. Probably my analogy of hand-waving was
>> inappropriate. That's obviously not the same as your
>> hair standing on end when you get a creepy feeling or
>> the stomach ache which tells you it's dinner time.
>>
>> andy
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Hegel for Social Movements
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u5bbHvFUA$>
>> Home Page
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!SuCLv6fToTs8KM3N6g5Oqmfo51K9S2o9La2_xoAra5L1003TxFvIhV_9eW_a_u6pRGACdQ$>
>>
>> On 24/07/2020 7:01 am, David Kellogg wrote:
>>> Well, it's not me turning it around, of course. The
>>> James-Lange theory is what it is: you perceive
>>> something, your viscera or vasomotor muscles
>>> respond, and the emotion is the feeling of that
>>> happening to you. Lange, at any rate, seems to be
>>> thinking of the male sexual response.
>>>
>>> I think that's why Dewey says that Hegel's
>>> anticipation of the theory is crude. Vygotsky
>>> wouldn't (and doesn't) agree that an emotion is
>>> "expressed". An emotion is not a mental state
>>> of affairs expressed in physiological changes in the
>>> viscera/vasomotor muscles or contrariwise a change
>>> in the visceral/vascular state of affairs expressed
>>> in a mental one. (For that very reason, I think that
>>> Vygotsky wouldn't agree with Andy's waving analogy....)
>>>
>>> Spinoza uses the term "affect" or
>>> "affection" instead. It means more or less what it
>>> sounds like: the way in which a body is affected by
>>> the environment and vice versa. This can either
>>> increase or decrease the potential for a body
>>> for activity. The problem is that in order to make
>>> this a theory of specifically human emotions, this
>>> activity has to include the "activity" of making
>>> meanings, and Spinoza can't seem to address THAT
>>> issue without slipping into psycho-physical
>>> parallelism. (Halliday can, though....)
>>> :
>>> David Kellogg
>>> Sangmyung University
>>>
>>> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A manual
>>> and a manifesto.
>>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!TfzgjLzqkc8JVlKmicTaLZMFJ8xx0betSNkstzweksdGg317CEc4oiSiGeNIzuHEDA5UbQ$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!QLEoxL29F3RatvgkaIG1vsUhEgaWkdE-vCDs0vMv8gD5JVN33eCV8_ZTlPUZ5zPbYeeQHQ$>
>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: /L.S.
>>> Vygotsky's Pedological Works/ /Volume One:
>>> Foundations of Pedology/"
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TfzgjLzqkc8JVlKmicTaLZMFJ8xx0betSNkstzweksdGg317CEc4oiSiGeNIzuHvKOkAHw$
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!QLEoxL29F3RatvgkaIG1vsUhEgaWkdE-vCDs0vMv8gD5JVN33eCV8_ZTlPUZ5zOCrzEKFA$>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 8:19 PM Andy Blunden
>>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> No, don't turn it around. The point is that
>>> organs are subordinate parts of the whole
>>> organism. The emotion /is/ the state of a whole
>>> organism, in particular, a mental state. Like a
>>> hand expresses a feeling when we wave to someone.
>>>
>>> andy
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!W1x0zBm8fkXksY2M64OKgpNL_TPx1e8eTQyWJEtxUBueZNW1leqHSuR9yBEWIW_pdhtxwg$>
>>> Home Page
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!W1x0zBm8fkXksY2M64OKgpNL_TPx1e8eTQyWJEtxUBueZNW1leqHSuR9yBEWIW9bL-5LGQ$>
>>>
>>> On 23/07/2020 8:55 pm, David Kellogg wrote:
>>>> Thanks, Andy--this is it!
>>>>
>>>> "In physiology the viscera and the organs are
>>>> treated merely as parts subservient to the
>>>> animal organism; but they form at the same time
>>>> a physical system for the expression of mental
>>>> states, and in this way they get quite another
>>>> interpretation."
>>>>
>>>> The only problem is the word "expression". In
>>>> the James-Lange theory, the mental states are
>>>> the expression of the viscera and the
>>>> organs. But perhaps that's what Hegel really
>>>> means here: the viscera and organs are a system
>>>> that expresses a state which we interpret as an
>>>> emotion.
>>>>
>>>> (I remember a dear friend of mine getting a
>>>> messy divorce and remarking, when I worried
>>>> that he was losing a lot of weight, that it
>>>> wasn't his heart that was broken but his
>>>> stomach....)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David Kellogg
>>>> Sangmyung University
>>>>
>>>> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam: A
>>>> manual and a manifesto.
>>>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!TfzgjLzqkc8JVlKmicTaLZMFJ8xx0betSNkstzweksdGg317CEc4oiSiGeNIzuHEDA5UbQ$
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!TttD-npmriYNiq_GkGHggjRPJwdnhAwRmpOFFclfTRlXC2fTkBviD-tAkaQPh-R8158beQ$>
>>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: /L.S.
>>>> Vygotsky's Pedological Works/ /Volume One:
>>>> Foundations of Pedology/"
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TfzgjLzqkc8JVlKmicTaLZMFJ8xx0betSNkstzweksdGg317CEc4oiSiGeNIzuHvKOkAHw$
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TttD-npmriYNiq_GkGHggjRPJwdnhAwRmpOFFclfTRlXC2fTkBviD-tAkaQPh-Q7yWc-iw$>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 5:19 PM Andy Blunden
>>>> <andyb@marxists.org
>>>> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If you're interested in s. 401, then you'll
>>>> probably be interested in 402 as well.
>>>>
>>>> One other possibility: The "official" way
>>>> of citing Hegel nowadays is to cite the
>>>> page no. in the authoritative version of
>>>> /Hegel Werke/. The German word for "page"
>>>> is /Seite/, so you would say "S. 401" of
>>>> the /Enc/, This turns out also to be an
>>>> interesting passage of the Subjective
>>>> Spirit, on Self-consciousness, concerned
>>>> with the infamous Master-Slave dialectic,
>>>> though in a much reduced form, not like in
>>>> the /Phenomenology of Spirit/.
>>>>
>>>> See p. 401 in the other attachment,
>>>> ENZYKl3.PDF, in German. English translation
>>>> is here:
>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/suconsci.htm*SU428__;Iw!!Mih3wA!TfzgjLzqkc8JVlKmicTaLZMFJ8xx0betSNkstzweksdGg317CEc4oiSiGeNIzuF9A4p8Bg$
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/suconsci.htm*SU428__;Iw!!Mih3wA!V5yS3WiqsE4SSOtcY1SJElXpnzzhFH035NnO1lZ49z3QJYH4kQO68Wccu2Y86C642xXiTQ$>
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!V5yS3WiqsE4SSOtcY1SJElXpnzzhFH035NnO1lZ49z3QJYH4kQO68Wccu2Y86C4MltIy3g$>
>>>> Home Page
>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!V5yS3WiqsE4SSOtcY1SJElXpnzzhFH035NnO1lZ49z3QJYH4kQO68Wccu2Y86C7AtYM8hA$>
>>>>
>>>> On 23/07/2020 5:47 pm, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The Philosophy of Spirit is the Third Part
>>>>> of the Encyclopaedia, itself composed of
>>>>> three parts:
>>>>>
>>>>> * Subjective Spirit, which is commonly
>>>>> taken as Psychology
>>>>> * Objective Spirit, which is commonly
>>>>> taken as Social Theory, and
>>>>> * Absolute Spirit, which covers Art,
>>>>> religion, Science and Philosophy.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Encyclopaedia has numbered paragraphs.
>>>>> These do vary between 2 or editions, but
>>>>> these will be limited probably by those
>>>>> translated into English,
>>>>>
>>>>> I would start with the 1930 version"
>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/susoul.htm*SU401__;Iw!!Mih3wA!TfzgjLzqkc8JVlKmicTaLZMFJ8xx0betSNkstzweksdGg317CEc4oiSiGeNIzuFnVFjyJQ$
>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/susoul.htm*SU401__;Iw!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj0va8zujw$>
>>>>> - a very early stage in the development of
>>>>> mental life, or.
>>>>>
>>>>> The 1817 version has
>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/sspirit.htm*SS399__;Iw!!Mih3wA!TfzgjLzqkc8JVlKmicTaLZMFJ8xx0betSNkstzweksdGg317CEc4oiSiGeNIzuHlVb8IBg$
>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sp/sspirit.htm*SS399__;Iw!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj24gIDBAA$>
>>>>> - this version puts s. 401 at the
>>>>> beginning of a version of Objective Spirit.
>>>>>
>>>>> The 1830 one, above, has a long Note to it
>>>>> written by his students on the basis of
>>>>> Hegel's lectures which is a long discourse
>>>>> on the development of thinking from
>>>>> sensation. I am thinking this is what you
>>>>> mean. I will photocopy it and send it on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Andy
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj2Rs_DLCQ$>
>>>>> Home Page
>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!UcUFXSCRfRh-5aW0-7m25WJ_9mWTvjd1a6nOCEuF7RAbpt35sEPbx38XfvY3Rj0L0JHIrA$>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 23/07/2020 5:09 pm, David Kellogg wrote:
>>>>>> We are trying to turn Vygotsky's
>>>>>> "Teaching on Emotion" into one of those
>>>>>> cartoon books that are so popular here in
>>>>>> Korea (e.g. the "Why?" series). It's not
>>>>>> Vygotsky for dummies, but it will have a
>>>>>> lot of pictures with questions and
>>>>>> answers alongside Vygotsky's rather
>>>>>> difficult text.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We've got to figure out the text first.
>>>>>> For example, what does John Dewey mean
>>>>>> when he says:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "On the historical side, it may be worth
>>>>>> noting that a crude anticipation of
>>>>>> James' theory is found in Hegel's
>>>>>> Philosophie des Geistes, 401."?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did Hegel ever write a Philosophie des
>>>>>> Geistes? If so, does the number refer to
>>>>>> a page number or a section or what?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brocku.ca/MeadProject/Dewey/Dewey_1895.html__;!!Mih3wA!TfzgjLzqkc8JVlKmicTaLZMFJ8xx0betSNkstzweksdGg317CEc4oiSiGeNIzuFnJZcsog$
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brocku.ca/MeadProject/Dewey/Dewey_1895.html__;!!Mih3wA!RLGVUv48gomTR2KJ99jcR-ruYcur4TKLR3u-7WeR_HhShIfYJpHP0U7EwICkluTj4uvZOA$>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Kellogg
>>>>>> Sangmyung University
>>>>>>
>>>>>> New Article: Ruqaiya Hasan, in memoriam:
>>>>>> A manual and a manifesto.
>>>>>> Outlines, Spring 2020
>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!TfzgjLzqkc8JVlKmicTaLZMFJ8xx0betSNkstzweksdGg317CEc4oiSiGeNIzuHEDA5UbQ$
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://tidsskrift.dk/outlines/article/view/116238__;!!Mih3wA!RLGVUv48gomTR2KJ99jcR-ruYcur4TKLR3u-7WeR_HhShIfYJpHP0U7EwICkluSzhBnr9w$>
>>>>>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov:
>>>>>> /L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works/
>>>>>> /Volume One: Foundations of Pedology/"
>>>>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!TfzgjLzqkc8JVlKmicTaLZMFJ8xx0betSNkstzweksdGg317CEc4oiSiGeNIzuHvKOkAHw$
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!RLGVUv48gomTR2KJ99jcR-ruYcur4TKLR3u-7WeR_HhShIfYJpHP0U7EwICkluRBlvE9VA$>
>>>>
>
>
> --
>
>
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>
> The Angel's View of History is looking as plausible in
> 2020 as it did to Walter Benjamin & Klee in 1940
>
> ---------------------------------------------
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