[Xmca-l] Re: "this remarkable list" (Gabosch, 2002)

Thu Aug 20 11:54:48 PDT 2020

Thanks, Mike.

Can you say just a tad more about *"when the teaching 'works' e.g., is
appropriated and built upon"*?

I have a sense of what you mean, and what it means in my own experience --
but if time and mood allow, could you spare a few more sentences from your
own valuable POV?

After all, "when the teaching works" is one of the main things many of us
are going for : )

Thanks,

Anthony

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 2:42 PM mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:

> David, Anthorny.....
>
> I went back and found this exchange with the article and the translation.
> Seems like a candidate for a good translation
> and a quick posting on C/P.
>
> I would be careful with google translation, although its a reasonable
> first pass. Speaking of mistranslations
> the English 6 volume translate of the term "vryashchivanie"  is translated
> variously, from ingrowing to interiorization
> to revolution and google likes rotating.  Its enough to make your head
> spin.
>
> I am for sure not the best instructor I ever met, but I have always
> learned a lot from teaching. I find what I believe to be
> a genuine feeling of humility when the teaching "works", e.g., is
> appropriated and built upon. Like David, I feel uncomfortable
> when in my excitement after a meeting I say this to people who consider me
> a teacher -- as if it is false humbleness. But it isn't.
> We all over attribute what happens to us positively if events go well. But
> when education is developmental education, obuchenie
> becomes a two way street.
>
> 2 kopeks of distraction
> mike
>
>
>
>
> My experiences with online
> teaching go a long way back to the beginnings of interactive TV and I
> really like the experiences I have had so far. The
> past couple of years have been particularly rich learning experiences for
> me.  These learning experiences just might have
> been sufficient to induce a qualitative change in my intellectual
> development .... Whether it is a qualitative change up, or
> down, or just another lap around the track searching for the ladder has
> yet to become clear.
>
> I agree
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 3:48 PM David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Anthony--
>>
>> As far as I know, it's never been translated. But you can find it in
>> Russian at the Electronic Library of Moscow State University--right here:
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://psychlib.ru/mgppu/VUR/VUR-0331.htm*$p33__;Iw!!Mih3wA!XTaeVUAONxrTV_Jh0_I2YFSJ34I6UNaAqekWj8Rn6sLWX6nONk4sJbR4mHxMFc_BluV_3g$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://psychlib.ru/mgppu/VUR/VUR-0331.htm*$p33__;Iw!!Mih3wA!Rs_L1xTA4cK7ZLj1xktMYU2QoDLfV1QvnStvCyYqfiG4i8MJ26pTlc9y9e8EH9WCcJfqmQ$>
>>
>> If your Russian is anything like mine (i.e. limited to a very narrow
>> register) you'll need a translation to make sense of it. But you'll find
>> that if you right click on the text, it will bring to bear the power of
>> Google Translate. Since Google Translate operates with established
>> translations of Vygotsky, and since Vygotsky does tend to repeat his
>> formulations when he's got one that he likes, you will find that the result
>> is quite usable.
>>
>> (Of course you know that I didn't mean to imply that you only took away
>> the framing anecdote, Anthony; I was just trying to think of a hypothetical
>> example that didn't involve the theatre--theatrics are not always a bad
>> thing when you are in a theatre. However, I really DID mean what I said
>> about the pleasure of teaching-learning for the TEACHER: it IS
>> underemphasized and it DOES explain a lot about how ideas do manage to
>> outlive the bodies that have them. I guess we tend to explain this pleasure
>> by talking about how much we ourselves have learned from the experience of
>> teaching, and I suppose that does SOUND humble and modest, although when
>> you think about it what I am really saying when I say that is that I am
>> still the best teacher I have ever met. For me, the humility is keener and
>> borders on humiliation--I learn the hard way how much I have to learn about
>> cultivating an on-line teaching persona, modulating my intonation, not
>> stroking my beard all the time and sticking to the point rather better than
>> I am wont to do in class. If my students can survive all that, maybe the
>> ideas will too....)
>>
>> David Kellogg
>> Sangmyung University
>>
>> New article in Mind, Culture, and Activity:
>> Realizations: non-causal but real relationships in and between Halliday,
>> Hasan, and Vygotsky
>>
>> Some free e-prints today available at:
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/Y8YHS3SRW42VXPTVY2Z6/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1806329__;Lw!!Mih3wA!XTaeVUAONxrTV_Jh0_I2YFSJ34I6UNaAqekWj8Rn6sLWX6nONk4sJbR4mHxMFc_aCyhWqQ$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/Y8YHS3SRW42VXPTVY2Z6/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1806329__;Lw!!Mih3wA!Rs_L1xTA4cK7ZLj1xktMYU2QoDLfV1QvnStvCyYqfiG4i8MJ26pTlc9y9e8EH9WXV3cPhQ$>
>>
>> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works
>> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology"
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!XTaeVUAONxrTV_Jh0_I2YFSJ34I6UNaAqekWj8Rn6sLWX6nONk4sJbR4mHxMFc9cSyI_HQ$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!Rs_L1xTA4cK7ZLj1xktMYU2QoDLfV1QvnStvCyYqfiG4i8MJ26pTlc9y9e8EH9UWNSuBKw$>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 12:50 AM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Good afternoon,
>>>
>>> In a search for an article cited in S. Chaiklin's great "The zone of
>>> proximal development in Vygotsky’s analysis of learning and instruction"
>>> (2003), I stumbled upon a post that I believe many here will enjoy
>>> re-reading:
>>> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2002_11.dir/0156.html
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Anthony
>>>
>>> P.S.  Here is the article I was searching for (in case anyone can help):
>>>
>>>    - Vygotsky, L. S. (1935a). Dinamika umstvennogo razvitiza shkol’nika
>>>    v svjazi s obucheniem. In Umstvennoie razvitie detei v protsesse obuchenia
>>>    (pp. 33-52). Moscow/Leningrad: Gosudarstvennoie Uchebno-pedagogicheskoie
>>>    Izdatel’stvo.
>>>
>>> And the reference, in context:
>>>
>>>> "In one article, which as far as I know is neither translated nor
>>>> readily available, Vygotsky (1935a) describes a set of experiments in which
>>>> children are tested and identified to have a high or low IQ as well as a
>>>> large or small zone (as determined by the kind of procedure described in
>>>> the previous paragraph). Subsequent school success is determined, and it
>>>> appears that the size of the zone of proximal development was more
>>>> predictive than IQ. That is, children with a larger zone of proximal
>>>> development (i.e., more maturing functions are currently available) had
>>>> comparable intellectual development, regardless of IQ. Similarly, children
>>>> with a smaller zone of proximal development had a comparable intellectual
>>>> development, regardless of the initially measured IQ. In other words, the
>>>> zone of proximal development gave a better indication for
>>>> predicting/understanding future intellectual development than a measure of
>>>> independent performance, where the explanation is that the greater number
>>>> of maturing functions gives a child better opportunities to benefit from
>>>> school instruction. A detailed summary of this article is found in van der
>>>> Veer and Valsiner (1991, pp. 336-341)." (Chaiklin, 2003, p. 12-13).
>>>>
>>>
>
> --
>
> I[image: Angelus Novus]
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelus_Novus__;!!Mih3wA!UmPtbsE6sb-K9IJHK-rD37j6s0q2xjWinNR4yhUTl0rTVs4cM88L3Fqz7B6mzvNP5vAR0w$>The
> Angel's View of History
>
> It is only in a social context that subjectivism and objectivism,
> spiritualism and materialism, activity and passivity cease to be
> antinomies, and thus cease to exist as such antinomies. The resolution of
> the theoretical contradictions is possible only through practical means,
> only through the practical energy of humans. (Marx, 1844).
> Cultural Praxis Website: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!XTaeVUAONxrTV_Jh0_I2YFSJ34I6UNaAqekWj8Rn6sLWX6nONk4sJbR4mHxMFc9Lxgwctw$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!UmPtbsE6sb-K9IJHK-rD37j6s0q2xjWinNR4yhUTl0rTVs4cM88L3Fqz7B6mzvPwXT_R9g$>
> Re-generating CHAT Website: re-generatingchat.com
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> Archival resources website: lchc.ucsd.edu.
> Narrative history of LCHC:  lchcautobio.ucsd.edu.
>
>
>
>
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