[Xmca-l] Re: "this remarkable list" (Gabosch, 2002)

Thu Aug 20 11:40:15 PDT 2020

David, Anthorny.....

I went back and found this exchange with the article and the translation.
Seems like a candidate for a good translation
and a quick posting on C/P.

I would be careful with google translation, although its a reasonable first
pass. Speaking of mistranslations
the English 6 volume translate of the term "vryashchivanie"  is translated
variously, from ingrowing to interiorization
to revolution and google likes rotating.  Its enough to make your head spin.

I am for sure not the best instructor I ever met, but I have always learned
a lot from teaching. I find what I believe to be
a genuine feeling of humility when the teaching "works", e.g., is
appropriated and built upon. Like David, I feel uncomfortable
when in my excitement after a meeting I say this to people who consider me
a teacher -- as if it is false humbleness. But it isn't.
We all over attribute what happens to us positively if events go well. But
when education is developmental education, obuchenie
becomes a two way street.

2 kopeks of distraction
mike

My experiences with online
teaching go a long way back to the beginnings of interactive TV and I
really like the experiences I have had so far. The
past couple of years have been particularly rich learning experiences for
me.  These learning experiences just might have
been sufficient to induce a qualitative change in my intellectual
development .... Whether it is a qualitative change up, or
down, or just another lap around the track searching for the ladder has yet
to become clear.

I agree

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 3:48 PM David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:

> Anthony--
>
> As far as I know, it's never been translated. But you can find it in
> Russian at the Electronic Library of Moscow State University--right here:
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://psychlib.ru/mgppu/VUR/VUR-0331.htm*$p33__;Iw!!Mih3wA!UmPtbsE6sb-K9IJHK-rD37j6s0q2xjWinNR4yhUTl0rTVs4cM88L3Fqz7B6mzvPDy3RV6g$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://psychlib.ru/mgppu/VUR/VUR-0331.htm*$p33__;Iw!!Mih3wA!Rs_L1xTA4cK7ZLj1xktMYU2QoDLfV1QvnStvCyYqfiG4i8MJ26pTlc9y9e8EH9WCcJfqmQ$>
>
> If your Russian is anything like mine (i.e. limited to a very narrow
> register) you'll need a translation to make sense of it. But you'll find
> that if you right click on the text, it will bring to bear the power of
> Google Translate. Since Google Translate operates with established
> translations of Vygotsky, and since Vygotsky does tend to repeat his
> formulations when he's got one that he likes, you will find that the result
> is quite usable.
>
> (Of course you know that I didn't mean to imply that you only took away
> the framing anecdote, Anthony; I was just trying to think of a hypothetical
> example that didn't involve the theatre--theatrics are not always a bad
> thing when you are in a theatre. However, I really DID mean what I said
> about the pleasure of teaching-learning for the TEACHER: it IS
> underemphasized and it DOES explain a lot about how ideas do manage to
> outlive the bodies that have them. I guess we tend to explain this pleasure
> by talking about how much we ourselves have learned from the experience of
> teaching, and I suppose that does SOUND humble and modest, although when
> you think about it what I am really saying when I say that is that I am
> still the best teacher I have ever met. For me, the humility is keener and
> borders on humiliation--I learn the hard way how much I have to learn about
> cultivating an on-line teaching persona, modulating my intonation, not
> stroking my beard all the time and sticking to the point rather better than
> I am wont to do in class. If my students can survive all that, maybe the
> ideas will too....)
>
> David Kellogg
> Sangmyung University
>
> New article in Mind, Culture, and Activity:
> Realizations: non-causal but real relationships in and between Halliday,
> Hasan, and Vygotsky
>
> Some free e-prints today available at:
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/Y8YHS3SRW42VXPTVY2Z6/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1806329__;Lw!!Mih3wA!UmPtbsE6sb-K9IJHK-rD37j6s0q2xjWinNR4yhUTl0rTVs4cM88L3Fqz7B6mzvODqhuA7w$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/Y8YHS3SRW42VXPTVY2Z6/full?target=10.1080*10749039.2020.1806329__;Lw!!Mih3wA!Rs_L1xTA4cK7ZLj1xktMYU2QoDLfV1QvnStvCyYqfiG4i8MJ26pTlc9y9e8EH9WXV3cPhQ$>
>
> New Translation with Nikolai Veresov: L.S. Vygotsky's Pedological Works
> Volume One: Foundations of Pedology"
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!UmPtbsE6sb-K9IJHK-rD37j6s0q2xjWinNR4yhUTl0rTVs4cM88L3Fqz7B6mzvPwHvOqjw$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9789811505270__;!!Mih3wA!Rs_L1xTA4cK7ZLj1xktMYU2QoDLfV1QvnStvCyYqfiG4i8MJ26pTlc9y9e8EH9UWNSuBKw$>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 12:50 AM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Good afternoon,
>>
>> In a search for an article cited in S. Chaiklin's great "The zone of
>> proximal development in Vygotsky’s analysis of learning and instruction"
>> (2003), I stumbled upon a post that I believe many here will enjoy
>> re-reading:
>> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2002_11.dir/0156.html
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>> P.S.  Here is the article I was searching for (in case anyone can help):
>>
>>    - Vygotsky, L. S. (1935a). Dinamika umstvennogo razvitiza shkol’nika
>>    v svjazi s obucheniem. In Umstvennoie razvitie detei v protsesse obuchenia
>>    (pp. 33-52). Moscow/Leningrad: Gosudarstvennoie Uchebno-pedagogicheskoie
>>    Izdatel’stvo.
>>
>> And the reference, in context:
>>
>>> "In one article, which as far as I know is neither translated nor
>>> readily available, Vygotsky (1935a) describes a set of experiments in which
>>> children are tested and identified to have a high or low IQ as well as a
>>> large or small zone (as determined by the kind of procedure described in
>>> the previous paragraph). Subsequent school success is determined, and it
>>> appears that the size of the zone of proximal development was more
>>> predictive than IQ. That is, children with a larger zone of proximal
>>> development (i.e., more maturing functions are currently available) had
>>> comparable intellectual development, regardless of IQ. Similarly, children
>>> with a smaller zone of proximal development had a comparable intellectual
>>> development, regardless of the initially measured IQ. In other words, the
>>> zone of proximal development gave a better indication for
>>> predicting/understanding future intellectual development than a measure of
>>> independent performance, where the explanation is that the greater number
>>> of maturing functions gives a child better opportunities to benefit from
>>> school instruction. A detailed summary of this article is found in van der
>>> Veer and Valsiner (1991, pp. 336-341)." (Chaiklin, 2003, p. 12-13).
>>>
>>

-- 

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