[Xmca-l] Re: [Xmca -l] sociocultural theory of sentient beings
Harshad Dave
hhdave15@gmail.com
Sun May 6 04:37:52 PDT 2018
Hi,
When there are many vital differences in two things where majority of them
are easier to comprehend empirically, it sometime becomes difficult to
explain the same in words. It does not mean it is impossible but there
might be more arguments than the explanation. The difference between human
and animal is the debate of same nature. However, I point out one
difference here.
Human is the only animal who supplemented his natural abilities with the
help of discoveries and inventions made by him to such an extent that it
surpassed the evolutionary development in human ability with a
revolutionary development in it. He undermined natural abilities of other
creatures with his boosted ability substantially in a way that many of them
lost the ground in the struggle and conflict resulting into their
(creatures) extinction. Other all the creatures of earth, with any reasons,
could not develop their ability beyond evolutionary changes.
Harshad Dave
Harshad Dave
Mobile: +91 9979853305
Address:
"SWAYAM",
B - 116, Yoginagar Township,
Opp. Ramakaka Temple,
Chhani - 391 740.
Vadodara, Gujarat,
India.
On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 3:40 PM, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
> We cannot understand species in terms of sorting them into
> boxes according to attributes. The point is to identify the
> behaviour which actually *brings about* the
> *transformation* from one species *to the other*. This form
> of behaviour (not biological characteristics) is the
> "essence of humanity."
>
> In relation to robots and humans, the equivalent question
> would be what behaviour would transform a human into a
> non-human robot.
> Beats me.
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden
> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
> On 6/05/2018 7:53 PM, John Cripps Clark wrote:
> > As David has pointed out, it is pointless to try and manufacture a
> characteristic that distinguish one particular type of animal (humans) à la
> Plato. There are good examples of animals that perpetrate and dissemble
> "unethical acts". There is an overlap between human and animal
> characteristics and the behaviours that characterise the transitions. It is
> interesting to see a similar confusion arising in the debate about
> distinguishing humans from intelligent machines.
> >
> > John
> >
> > On 6/5/18, 7:39 pm, "xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of
> robsub@ariadne.org.uk" <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of
> robsub@ariadne.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> > It might be fruitful to consider this simultaneously from two angles:
> > what distinguishes us from animals, and what distinguishes us from
> > robots. The robot path focuses around feelings, ethics and decision
> > making, and is as murky as the animal angle.
> >
> > If you have the time and patience, it is worth watching the Swedish
> Akta
> > Manniskor ("Real Humans"), and its English derivatve Humans.
> "Humans" is
> > reversioned rather than translated. It keeps the same story but
> treats
> > it differently in interesting ways, making for thought provoking
> > comparisons about the ways they deal with the issues.
> >
> > Akta manniskor is available via wlext
> > http://wlext.net/series/akta-manniskor-season-1. You have to put up
> with
> > occasional bandwidth problems on their server, and some extremely
> dodgy ads.
> >
> > Humans is available via All4 in the UK
> > http://www.channel4.com/programmes/humans. And I am delighted to
> find
> > that series 3 is about to air. I have set my alarm clock.
> >
> > On 06/05/2018 07:43, Harshad Dave wrote:
> > > "Human is the only animal who fabricated ethics to justify his
> unethical
> > > acts."
> > > Harshad.
> > >
> > > On Sun, 6 May 2018 7:54 AM Andy Blunden, <andyb@marxists.org>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> As Vygotsky showed, whatever behaviour "distinguishes"
> > >> humans from other animals, then that behaviour will be found
> > >> in rudimentary form in some animals. The point is not to
> > >> look for an attribute which one has and another doesn't, but
> > >> the behaviour which generates the transition from non-human
> > >> animal to human. If that behaviour did not exist in any
> > >> non-human animals, then you would be looking for God to
> > >> grant it to humans.
> > >>
> > >> Andy
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> Andy Blunden
> > >> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
> > >> On 6/05/2018 10:47 AM, John Cripps Clark wrote:
> > >>> A recent episode of Freakonomics is perhaps apposite here:
> > >>>
> > >>> http://freakonomics.com/podcast/animal-economics/
> > >>>
> > >>> Alexandra Horowitz finishes the show by saying:
> > >>>
> > >>> " I’ve studied and taught animal cognition and comparative
> psychology
> > >> for decades. And this question, “What’s the one thing that
> distinguishes
> > >> humans from non-human animals?” is clearly the driving force of
> much
> > >> research. We might trace it back to Plato, who described man as a
> > >> featherless biped. But the smart-alec Diogenes then plucked a
> chicken and
> > >> said triumphantly, “Here is Plato’s man.” To which Plato simply
> pivoted,
> > >> adding, “Okay, a featherless biped with broad nails, not claws.”
> And so it
> > >> has been since, trying to find the feature that will verify the
> human
> > >> species’ uniqueness. “It’s imitation.” “It’s culture.” “It’s
> teaching.”
> > >> “It’s language.” “It’s a theory of mind.” Each confidently
> proposed and
> > >> then collapsing under the weight of actual evidence.
> > >>> The one thing that makes humans human? Our obsession with asking
> and
> > >> answering this question. As far as I know we’re the only species
> so
> > >> concerned with distinguishing ourselves from other animals. Of
> course,
> > >> research could prove me wrong."
> > >>> John
> > >>>
> > >>> On 6/5/18, 6:54 am, "xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf
> of
> > >> HENRY SHONERD" <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu on behalf of
> > >> hshonerd@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> A continuacion:
> > >>> So, I’m watching the pre-event narrative for the Kentucky
> Derby on
> > >> NBC. My Navajo brother Herb is watching, because his daughter
> works with
> > >> thoroughbred horses a few miles down the road from where the
> broadcast is
> > >> eminating. “Boring” was what Herb said about the commentary
> until a back
> > >> story that was about thoroughbred horses that were set free
> during a forest
> > >> fire in California, rather than be burned to death. Forty-six
> were unlucky
> > >> enough to have the doors to their stalls stay shut as the fires
> came on.
> > >> Some of the survivors spent days on the run. The story was
> courage, love
> > >> and respect. And horses and their owners were back to winning in
> > >> statistically unexpected ways. Herb didn’t think that story was
> boring.
> > >>> Henry
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> > On May 5, 2018, at 10:51 AM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
> wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> > That video is thought provoking, Annalisa. I'll have to
> try it
> > >> with my dog.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > There are other dog behaviors that seem to be analogues
> of human
> > >>> > behaviors. For example, in humans, around 9-10 months,
> infants
> > >> begin
> > >>> > to display "social referencing" when they start to engage
> in
> > >> behaviors
> > >>> > that they are uncertain about (a little kids crawls over
> the open
> > >> drawer
> > >>> > where kitchen ware is stored, starts to grab a dish and
> then
> > >> looks back
> > >>> > at her father sitting on a chair behind her to check his
> reaction
> > >> before
> > >>> > proceeding to pick up the dish or leave it where it is.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > My dog does the same thing when we go for a walk and she
> is unsure
> > >> of which
> > >>> > direction we are going to take, but she is in the lead on
> leash.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > I do not see how to get that article, Alfredo. Our
> library does
> > >> not get the
> > >>> > journal.
> > >>> > Can you obtain it?
> > >>> >
> > >>> > mike
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>> > On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 8:22 AM, Alfredo Jornet Gil <
> > >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
> > >>> > wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> >> That’s an intellectual twist to cute cats/dogs vids in
> social
> > >> media! There
> > >>> >> was this overview article on comparative cultural
> cognition that
> > >> I thought
> > >>> >> of; I think it’s open access: http://wires.wiley.com/
> > >>> >> WileyCDA/WiresArticle/wisId-WCS14.html
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> Alfredo
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> On 5 May 2018, at 04:35, Annalisa Aguilar <
> annalisa@unm.edu
> > >> <mailto:annal
> > >>> >> isa@unm.edu>> wrote:
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> Hello Xmcars,
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> Saw this on twitter and I couldn't help but consider
> mirror
> > >> neurons
> > >>> >> working across the species.
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> https://twitter.com/AMAZlNGNATURE/status/
> 992062861735219201
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> It's not exactly pointing, but it seems to point to
> something.
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> (Then again, we can't hear the sound, so there may be a
> prompt
> > >> (and a
> > >>> >> treat) afterwards!)
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> Still, something to consider why animals might be more
> like us
> > >> than we
> > >>> >> think!
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> They want to belong too!
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> Kind regards,
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> Annalisa
> > >>> >>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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