[Xmca-l] Re: Object of activity (was: Swedish activist Elon Ersson wins the day)

[Huw Lloyd]

In this terminology the object is simply the artefact pertaining to the
activity. I doubt very much whether there is alignment with Engestrom other
than potentially some basic referents.

As I said, the terms do not change my own system of relations. I simply bow
to a custom articulated by a Russian speaker with a long history in the
tradition of activity theory.

On the matter of multiple goals, this is not ambiguous to the degree that
it reflects the nesting that takes place in such activity, i.e. the
plurality is authentic.

If you wish to engage any thinking in the matter, I suggest you'd be better
off starting from Gregory Bedny's chapter. I'll email Gregory to see if he
is willing to share the chapter.

Best,
Huw




On 26 July 2018 at 11:28, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:

> So "object" in your sense, the same sense in which Engestrom uses
> "object." This is something quite different from "goal" in Leontyev's
> sense, which is what the subject intends to transform the object into.
> Except that that concept of "goal" (intention) does not exist in
> Engestrom's system, only "outcome", which is clearly not the same thing as
> "goal" because things don't always go as intended. But from what I gather
> of "according to the activity goal", the "activity goal" is what Leontyev
> called the "motivation" - the reason for doing something. What you (and
> Engestrom) are calling "object" is like what Marx refers to as *Arbeitsgegenstand
> *- or "object of labour" (the "something" in your quote) whose form is
> changed. I think that's the Russian *predmet*. Fair enough.
>
> So you are contrasting "task goal" and "goal of activity". Fair enough,
> but isn't it confusing to use "goal" for both? That means you can never use
> the word "goal" without qualifying it as the "task goal" or the "goal of
> activity".
>
> Andy
> ------------------------------
> Andy Blunden
> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
> On 26/07/2018 7:13 PM, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>
> Since my original endeavours I have switched to referring to the task goal
> or goal of activity, in conformance with Bedny et al's terminology.
> Personally this does not change my systemic formulations, but it does seem
> to point to holes in others', whilst reducing ambiguity.
>
> "An object of activity that can be material or mental (symbols, images,
> etc.) is something that can be modified by a subject according to the
> activity goal (Bedny and Karwowski, 2007; Leont’ev, 1981; Rubinshtein,
> 1957; Zinchenko, 1995)." Bedny (2015, p. 91)
>
> This is from the chapter "Basic Concepts and Terminology" which offers
> further elaboration (ref below).
>
> Best,
> Huw
>
> Bedny, G. Z. (2015) *Application of Systemic-Structural Activity Theory
> to Design and Training*. Boca Raton: CRC Press
>
> On 26 July 2018 at 02:54, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>
>> ... to continue this dialogue on winning and losing, a now-departed
>> friend who was a writer once commented to me after we had together watched
>> an inspiring play performed by Melbourne Workers' Theatre, that for the
>> working class *every* struggle, every story of victory, ends in defeat,
>> simply because the object of the workers' movement lies if at all in the
>> future; the road to socialism is a series of small victories followed by
>> defeats. Until .... So Elon is acting in a fine tradition.
>>
>> The distinction between goal and object (by whatever names) was relevant
>> for the recent xmca discussion around the Brazilian social movements, which
>> kept popping up with different goals, but, one suspects, shared a common
>> object.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> PS. For the distinction between goal and object, I rely on A N Leonytev's
>> succinct definition of action: "Processes, the object and motive of
>> which do not coincide with one another, we shall call ‘actions’." but
>> choice of words for object, goal, aim, motive, etc., is problematic. I have
>> chosen "object" for what Hegel calls "Intention" and Leontyev calls
>> "motivation" and "goal" for what ANL calls "object" in the above quote.
>> ------------------------------
>> Andy Blunden
>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>> On 25/07/2018 10:21 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>
>> She achieved her goal. Her object will take longer to realise. Important
>> to recognise the difference.
>>
>> Andy
>> ------------------------------
>> Andy Blunden
>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>> On 25/07/2018 10:18 PM, Julian Williams wrote:
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> She wins and yet she doesn’t – the guy she went to ‘rescue’ was deported
>> on another flight, but she got the support of people on the plane (some
>> even joined her protest) and is being applauded by millions worldwide now:
>> this is a growing aspect of resistance activism, losing and winning.
>>
>>
>>
>> And the battle against deportations, and indeed fascism, in Sweden and
>> elsewhere continues….
>>
>>
>>
>> Julian
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *< <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> on behalf of Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org><andyb@marxists.org>
>> <andyb@marxists.org>
>> *Reply-To: *"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Date: *Wednesday, 25 July 2018 at 13:11
>> *To: * <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>"xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu"
>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Swedish activist Elon Ersson wins the day
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, you can see the stress on his young women's face and she stands
>> strong under enormous pressure and she wins. Wonderful!
>>
>> andy
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Andy Blunden
>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>
>> On 25/07/2018 10:07 PM, Julian Williams wrote:
>>
>> I think you and xmca may like this:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/25/swedish-student-plane-protest-stops-mans-deportation-afghanistan>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/25/swedish-studen
>> t-plane-protest-stops-mans-deportation-afghanistan
>>
>>
>>
>> ☺
>>
>>
>>
>> Julian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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