[Xmca-l] Re: LSV on language as a model of development

[mike cole]

Oh! Sometimes I just love this list/community. What a great range of
answers.
Kyle nailed just the passage that I was thinking of but could not locate.
David
linked the question to the idea/real being the environment that allows the
end to be in the beginning, Tom notes the link back to Hegel.

Whoa, what a tasty repast. Thank you all.

Here is something interesting to me-- No one mentioned the linkage of these
ideas to the spiral of development. I am sensitive to this point because
when the new LCHC generation brought the webpage out of the 1990's, none of
those who rescued it from decrepitude knew what the spiral of development
on the home page meant..... except that it was difficult to navigate along
it (having to read upside down and all that). It remains, as a pale
imitation of itself. Although it, too , can be found in Eliot!

Which brings us to affinities between the judeo-christian tradition and
marxism!

Anyway, thanks on all accounts.
mike


On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Tom Richardson <
tom.richardson3@googlemail.com> wrote:

> "situation in phylogenetic development where the
> end-point of development is co-present with its beginning..." reminds me
> of an Hegelian formulation,conceptualisation, (but standing on its own
> feet?)
> Tom
>
>
> On 2 July 2014 21:42, David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Mike:
>>
>> My favorite is on pp. 347-349 of the Vygotsky Reader, "The Problem of the
>> Environment". It's too long to quote here, so I summarize.
>>
>> Vygotsky is making the point that unlike phylogenetic
>> development, ontogenetic development is teleological. He  asks his
>> students
>> if they can imagine a situation in phylogenetic development where the
>> end-point of development is co-present with its beginning and is actually
>> capable of guiding its steps.
>>
>> (Since even the unimaginable has to be somehow come to mind, Vygotsky
>> probably has in mind, probably, the USSR, where the most advanced form of
>> social organization is co-present with hunter-gatherer societies in the
>> North, pastoral societies in Central Asia, and subsistence agriculture in
>> the Caucasus. When I try to do this, I somehow see flying saucers landing
>> at Stonehenge!)
>>
>> He concludes that no such situation is imaginable. But then--he points out
>> that the mere fact that something is unimaginable does nothing to prevent
>> it from actually happening, because precisely this situation obtains with
>> speech--that is, the "ideal, complete" form is present alongside the most
>> basic forms and help to guide their first stumbling steps.
>>
>> As T.S. Eliot says:
>>
>> In my beginning is my end. In succession
>> Houses rise and fall, crumble, are extended
>> Are removed, destroyed, restored or in their place
>> Is an open field, or a factory, or a by-pass (East Coker)
>>
>> David Kellogg
>> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
>>
>>
>> On 3 July 2014 03:41, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I am seeking to find a quotation from Vygotsky where he asserts that the
>> > development of language offers a general model for human development
>> more
>> > generally. My fantasy, or can someone help me find it?
>> > mike
>> >
>>
>
>