[Xmca-l] Re: LSV on language as a model of development

[Carol Macdonald]

Mike

I think we share the sentiments of Oh! I love this community!

Best
Carol


On 3 July 2014 03:59, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:

> Oh! Sometimes I just love this list/community. What a great range of
> answers.
> Kyle nailed just the passage that I was thinking of but could not locate.
> David
> linked the question to the idea/real being the environment that allows the
> end to be in the beginning, Tom notes the link back to Hegel.
>
> Whoa, what a tasty repast. Thank you all.
>
> Here is something interesting to me-- No one mentioned the linkage of these
> ideas to the spiral of development. I am sensitive to this point because
> when the new LCHC generation brought the webpage out of the 1990's, none of
> those who rescued it from decrepitude knew what the spiral of development
> on the home page meant..... except that it was difficult to navigate along
> it (having to read upside down and all that). It remains, as a pale
> imitation of itself. Although it, too , can be found in Eliot!
>
> Which brings us to affinities between the judeo-christian tradition and
> marxism!
>
> Anyway, thanks on all accounts.
> mike
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Tom Richardson <
> tom.richardson3@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > "situation in phylogenetic development where the
> > end-point of development is co-present with its beginning..." reminds me
> > of an Hegelian formulation,conceptualisation, (but standing on its own
> > feet?)
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > On 2 July 2014 21:42, David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Mike:
> >>
> >> My favorite is on pp. 347-349 of the Vygotsky Reader, "The Problem of
> the
> >> Environment". It's too long to quote here, so I summarize.
> >>
> >> Vygotsky is making the point that unlike phylogenetic
> >> development, ontogenetic development is teleological. He  asks his
> >> students
> >> if they can imagine a situation in phylogenetic development where the
> >> end-point of development is co-present with its beginning and is
> actually
> >> capable of guiding its steps.
> >>
> >> (Since even the unimaginable has to be somehow come to mind, Vygotsky
> >> probably has in mind, probably, the USSR, where the most advanced form
> of
> >> social organization is co-present with hunter-gatherer societies in the
> >> North, pastoral societies in Central Asia, and subsistence agriculture
> in
> >> the Caucasus. When I try to do this, I somehow see flying saucers
> landing
> >> at Stonehenge!)
> >>
> >> He concludes that no such situation is imaginable. But then--he points
> out
> >> that the mere fact that something is unimaginable does nothing to
> prevent
> >> it from actually happening, because precisely this situation obtains
> with
> >> speech--that is, the "ideal, complete" form is present alongside the
> most
> >> basic forms and help to guide their first stumbling steps.
> >>
> >> As T.S. Eliot says:
> >>
> >> In my beginning is my end. In succession
> >> Houses rise and fall, crumble, are extended
> >> Are removed, destroyed, restored or in their place
> >> Is an open field, or a factory, or a by-pass (East Coker)
> >>
> >> David Kellogg
> >> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
> >>
> >>
> >> On 3 July 2014 03:41, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I am seeking to find a quotation from Vygotsky where he asserts that
> the
> >> > development of language offers a general model for human development
> >> more
> >> > generally. My fantasy, or can someone help me find it?
> >> > mike
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>



-- 
Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
Developmental psycholinguist
Academic, Researcher,  and Editor
Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa