Re: [xmca] Banners of Brazil [without oppositions]

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Thanks for the context, Brett. Always helpful.
mike

On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 5:44 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:

> Well found, Brett!
> Andy
>
>
> Brett Bligh wrote:
>
>> I'd agree with Andy that these kind of quotations usually turn out to be
>> bunk and that in this case this is so.
>>
>> For the record, though, I think the quotation and comment arises from a
>> *misunderstanding* of a passage in "Leftwing Communism: An Infantile
>> Disorder". Lenin is reacting to some points made by the fiery Sylvia
>> Pankhurst, who has quoted approvingly an enraged letter to a newspaper
>> alleging that the BSP and ILP, some so-called working class organisations
>> of the time, have been captured by careerists. Lenin's reaction is
>> extensive, but begins with these two paragraphs:
>>
>> --
>> In my opinion, this letter to the editor expresses excellently the temper
>> and point of view of the young Communists, or of rank-and-file workers who
>> are only just beginning to accept communism. This temper is highly
>> gratifying and valuable; we must learn to appreciate and support it for, in
>> its absence, it would be hopeless to expect the victory of the proletarian
>> revolution in Great Britain, or in any other country for that matter.
>> People who can give expression to this temper of the masses, and are able
>> to evoke such a temper (which is very often dormant, unconscious and
>> latent) among the masses, should be appreciated and given every assistance.
>> At the same time, we must tell them openly and frankly that a state of mind
>> is by itself insufficient for leadership of the masses in a great
>> revolutionary struggle, and that the cause of the revolution may well be
>> harmed by certain errors that people who are most devoted to the cause of
>> the revolution are about to commit, or are committing. Comrade Gallacher's
>> letter undoubtedly reveals the rudiments of all the mistakes that are being
>> made by the German "Left" Communists and were made by the Russian "Left"
>> Bolsheviks in 1908 and 1918.
>>
>> The writer of the letter is full of a noble and working-class hatred for
>> the bourgeois "class politicians" (a hatred understood and shared, however,
>> not only by proletarians but by all working people, by all Kleinen Leuten
>> to use the German expression). In a representative of the oppressed and
>> exploited masses, this hatred is truly the "beginning of all wisdom", the
>> basis of any socialist and communist movement and of its success. The
>> writer, however, has apparently lost sight of the fact that politics is a
>> science and an art that does not fall from the skies or come gratis, and
>> that, if it wants to overcome the bourgeoisie, the proletariat must train
>> its own proletarian "class politicians", of a kind in no way inferior to
>> bourgeois politicians.
>>
>> http://www.marxists.org/**archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/**ch09.htm<http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch09.htm>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Hopefully even this brief extract shows that Lenin was making quite a
>> different point to the one being attributed to him.
>>
>> Brett
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.**ucsd.edu<xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>]
>> On Behalf Of mike cole
>> Sent: 29 June 2013 02:03
>> To: ablunden@mira.net
>> Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Banners of Brazil [without oppositions]
>>
>> I am perfectly ready to believe that it was not lenin who said that.
>> Whoever it was Peter was urging us to consider as a key idea. I did not
>> like the idea. It has deadly consequences when isolated in that fashion.
>>
>> mike
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 5:41 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Don't be quick to condemn, Mike. I searched Lenins CW at marxists.organd there is no record of Lenin having said that or anything vaguely
>>> similar.
>>> In my experience, at least 90% of the quotes imputed to Marx or other
>>> Marxists turn out to be either outright hoaxes or urban myths.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> mike cole wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I agree with a lot of what you said, Peter. American citizenry is not,
>>>> yet, in such a situation. Although the outpouring of support for the woman
>>>> who dared to stand up for reproductive rights in Texas provided such an
>>>> experience for many and has engaged many beyond.
>>>>
>>>> I do not agree with Lenin, however, that anger is the root of ALL
>>>> wisdom.
>>>> What a dim view of the human experience.
>>>>
>>>> mike
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Peter Feigenbaum [Staff] <
>>>> pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Brazilian colleagues,
>>>>>
>>>>> I find myself in envy of your situation. The struggle to create a
>>>>> better life for working-class and middle-class families in the US has been
>>>>> frustrating and demoralizing these past few years. Directly and through
>>>>> their political representatives, the capitalists have done severe damage to
>>>>> unions and their efforts to organize workers, and the community activists
>>>>> and union activists I'm involved with are worn out and exasperated from
>>>>> many defeats. So the news of a mass outpouring of people onto the streets
>>>>> of Brazil, and the possibility of truly progressive social change in your
>>>>> country, comes as welcome and uplifting news to those of us suffering in
>>>>> the "belly of the beast".
>>>>>
>>>>> For purely selfish reasons, I'm sorry that the events of the past few
>>>>> weeks did not occur last year--when I was visiting Brazil and lecturing at
>>>>> the University of Sao Paulo. It's been a long time since I had the
>>>>> opportunity in my own country to participate in mass demonstrations where
>>>>> the power and strength of the people becomes a palpable and conscious
>>>>> experience. The shared sense that the social order could be changed by our
>>>>> mass action is an exhilarating feeling! I remember thinking that the
>>>>> feeling is fragile, however, because it arose spontaneously and there was
>>>>> no understanding or plan for establishing the conditions for its
>>>>> continuation. Thus, the experience of <people power> was always episodic
>>>>> rather than sustained.
>>>>> In
>>>>> countries where socialism has already been achieved, however, such as
>>>>> Cuba, it's a different story, of course: the people are able to
>>>>> deliberately experience their own power simply by summoning to action their
>>>>> mass organizations such as the Federation of Cuban Women and the Committees
>>>>> for the Defense of the Revolution, which can mobilize 95% of the population
>>>>> on short notice.
>>>>>
>>>>> The events transpiring in Brazil were not consciously planned, but
>>>>> instead arose from an outpouring of emotion. (Lenin wrote that "anger is
>>>>> the root of all wisdom"). It seems to me that to sustain what has begun--to
>>>>> preserve and nurture people's sense of their own power--is going to require
>>>>> a conscious approach from here onward. It will be necessary to identify the
>>>>> material obstacles to realizing people's unity, and to develop concrete
>>>>> plans for overcoming those obstacles, whether they be ideological,
>>>>> theoretical, political, economic, technical, linguistic, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I cherish the reports of events in Brazil that have been shared on
>>>>> this listserve. I appreciate knowing what is happening through the lenses
>>>>> of your personal and professional perspectives.  I also appreciate the
>>>>> difficulty you must be having trying to reconcile the emotional and the
>>>>> rational sides of these events, particularly since the events are still in
>>>>> their infancy. As developments allow, please keep us appraised of your
>>>>> progress. Your achievements are heartwarming to those of us in need of such
>>>>> news.
>>>>>
>>>>> In solidarity (and with best wishes), Peter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Achilles Delari Junior <
>>>>> achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Internationally working. I believe and hope. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu
>>>>>>> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 07:53:04 -0600
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Banners of Brazil [without oppositions]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Achilles - both you're welcome, and truly there is nothing to
>>>>>>> apologize
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> for.  clarity of communication through the internet is daunting.  and,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> yes,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> again, here's working for greater transformations in Brazil.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> phillip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________****__________
>>>>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Behalf Of Achilles Delari Junior [achilles_delari@hotmail.com]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:56 PM
>>>>>>> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Banners of Brazil [without oppositions]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Philip, thank you very much. I sincerely believe that me and you are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> talking maybe not about the same things, but with a more important and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> deep
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> agreement in the essential ethical values. Because this, please accept
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> apologizes because my aggressive way to talk,  and my real respect in
>>>>>> relation to your patience and solidarity inside your critical
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> thinking... I
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> guess after some time all we will can understand better what is going
>>>>>> on,
>>>>>> in the eye of the hurricane is not so easy. But you give us some
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> important
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> insights - I will reflect about all your tips. Sincerely, my best
>>>>>> wishes
>>>>>> for you and all people that have the dignity for don't leave another
>>>>>> strange person talking alone, only because different forms of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> disagreement
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> epistemological, ethical or political. This is an actual aptitude of
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> international scholar. Thank you. I hope to see you soon. Achilles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________****____________
>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________****____________
>>>>>> _____
>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Peter Feigenbaum, Ph.D.
>>>>> Interim Director of Institutional Research
>>>>> Fordham University
>>>>> Thebaud Hall-202
>>>>> Bronx, NY 10458
>>>>>
>>>>> Phone: (718) 817-2243
>>>>> Fax: (718) 817-3203
>>>>> email: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu
>>>>> ______________________________****____________
>>>>> _____
>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
>>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________****____________
>>>> _____
>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------****----------------------------**--**
>>> ------------
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
>>> http://marxists.academia.edu/****AndyBlunden<http://marxists.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden>
>>> <http://marxists.**academia.edu/AndyBlunden<http://marxists.academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________**____________
>> _____
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>> This message and any attachment are intended solely for the addressee and
>> may contain confidential information. If you have received this message in
>> error, please send it back to me, and immediately delete it.   Please do
>> not use, copy or disclose the information contained in this message or in
>> any attachment.  Any views or opinions expressed by the author of this
>> email do not necessarily reflect the views of the University of Nottingham.
>>
>> This message has been checked for viruses but the contents of an
>> attachment
>> may still contain software viruses which could damage your computer
>> system, you are advised to perform your own checks. Email communications
>> with the University of Nottingham may be monitored as permitted by UK
>> legislation.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> ------------
>
> *Andy Blunden*
> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> http://marxists.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<http://marxists.academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
>
>
>
__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca