Re: [xmca] unit of analysis

[Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>]

*the germ cell expresses the tendency of the project primordially, rather
than as object.*
*the object of a project IS  its ideal*

This germ cell implies a founding of an object its transformation into an
object WITHIN time [prior to the forming ideal AS object. The founding
process is observable as social relations prior to idealization developing
within a con-text.
Andy, if I have read and interpreted this in the way intended, I still
wonder how we *read* the germ cell's founding as a germ cell.

larry


On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 6:46 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:

> I see, Eric. There is a lot of overlap of related questions here.
>
> The "germ cell" or "unit of analysis" of bourgeois society is the
> *commodity relation*. This primordial relation generates the succession of
> value-forms which Marx outlines in section 3 of Chapter 1 of Capital v. I.
> The outcome of this process is money, in which value is objectified now in
> material things, i.e., money. Money is the purest manifestation of the
> ideal, because there is absolutely nothing about the physical, chemical or
> other material properties of money which invests it with value. That is,
> *value is an ideal*, existing only thanks to social relations (which have
> actually far beyond simple exhcnage of commodities). OK, an old story. And
> Ilyenkov famously tells this story so as to explain in the clearest terms
> the concept of the ideal.
>
> I can now see the sense in which you link the ideal and the germ cell.
> Both represent in different ways the object of a project. The object of a
> project is its ideal, the ideal which the project is the process of
> realising. The germ cell expresses the tendency of the project primordially
> rather than as object. So the commodity is just as Davydov says "an
> entirely /real/ relationship that is given in a form /that can be
> contemplated by the senses/." But it is *primordial* or archetypal. Capital
> and money are the *highest* and purest forms, and can't really be
> apprehended by the senses, in the same way, because they are constituted as
> such by the entire ensemble of social relations. But an exchange of
> commodities can take place in circumatances very remote from bourgeois
> society, and can indeed be apprehended by the senses.
>
> Andy
>
> ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
>
>> From Ilyenkov's concept of the Ideal
>>
>> In /Capital /Marx defines the /form of value in general /as “purely
>> ideal” not on the grounds that it exists only “in the consciousness”, only
>> in the head of the commodity-owner, but on quite opposite grounds. The
>> price or the money form of value, like any form of value in general, is
>> IDEAL because it is totally distinct from the palpable, corporeal form of
>> commodity in which it is /presented, /we read in the chapter on “Money”.
>> [/Capital <http://www.marxists.org/**archive/marx/works/1867-c1/**
>> ch03.htm#a3<http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch03.htm#a3>>,
>> /Vol. I, pp. 98-99.]
>>
>>
>>
>> seventh paragraph and he continues on for the paper calrifying but I hope
>> this helps point out the comparison between what Davydov wrote and Ilyenkov
>> perhaps?
>> eric
>>
>> -----xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.**edu <xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu> wrote:
>> -----
>> To: ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org
>> From: Andy Blunden
>> Sent by: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
>> Date: 06/28/2013 07:43AM
>> Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] unit of analysis
>>
>> I don't see it, Eric. Could you explain perhaps?
>> Andy
>>
>> ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
>> > Very similiar to Ilyenkov's (siq) thinking on the Ideal.
>> > correct?
>> > eric
>> >
>> > -----xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.**edu <xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>wrote: -----
>> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> > From: Andy Blunden
>> > Sent by: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > Date: 06/27/2013 07:28PM
>> > Subject: Re: [xmca] unit of analysis
>> >
>> > And here is another quote from the same book, further clarifying
>> > Davydov's view:
>> >
>> > The aforementioned requirements can be met only by an entirely
>> > /real/ relationship that is given in a form /that can be
>> > contemplated by the senses/. As an aspect of something concrete –
>> > that is, having its /particular/ form – it at the same time
>> > functions as a genetic basis for another whole (and in this sense it
>> > functions as a universal). Here the real, objective unity of the
>> > individual (particular) and the universal, their /connection/, which
>> > mediates the process of development of the whole, is observed”
>> > (Davydov 1990, p. 282).
>> >
>> > Andy
>> >
>> > Andy Blunden wrote:
>> > > Eric, here is what Vasily Davydov says in his book on
>> "Generalisation":
>> > >
>> > > The uniqueness of this sort of initial abstraction appears in the
>> > > names for it: “concrete abstraction”, “the concrete-universal
>> > > relationship is the objective cell of the whole that is under
>> > > investigation”, “content-oriented abstraction”, or simply “cell”.
>> > > These names express in different ways the essence of an initial
>> > > abstraction as a simple relationship of concreteness. It
>> > > incorporates the potential of the whole, and at the same time it is
>> > > again reproduced by this whole as its general basis. In our opinion,
>> > > while all of these names are legitimate, it is advisable to use the
>> > > term /content-oriented, real abstraction/. In contrast to formal
>> > > abstraction, it is historical (it is a genetic basis), and its
>> > > content exists /concretely/, in the form of a relationship that can
>> > > be contemplated rather than merely in the mind.
>> > >
>> > > Andy
>> > > ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
>> > >> Been considering this in depth recently and have an idea as "germ
>> > >> cell" as an ideal of a conceptualiztion tool.
>> > >> For instance in Yro's moon phase paper the unit of analysis is in
>> > >> understanding knowledge acquisition as what the triangle of actiivy
>> > >> expands upon.
>> > >> Brazil's recent social upheavel would expand upon human subsistance
>> > >> and basic needs.
>> > >> The framework is in place for studying each of these activity systems
>> > >> (perhaps systems isn't best word and another would provide better
>> > >> clarity) with Yro's expanded triangle but because of the diversity of
>> > >> human existence the "germ cell" proposition provides a good platform
>> > >> for how to specify the utilization of the expanded triangle.
>> > >> Thinking out loud
>> > >> what do others think?
>> > >> eric
>> > >>
>> > ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> ------------
>> > >>
>> > >> ______________________________**____________
>> > >> _____
>> > >> xmca mailing list
>> > >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> > --
>> > ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> ------------
>> > *Andy Blunden*
>> > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/**>
>> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/**>
>>
>> > Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
>> > http://marxists.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<http://marxists.academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
>> >
>> > ______________________________**____________
>> > _____
>> > xmca mailing list
>> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> ------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/**>
>>
>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
>> http://marxists.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<http://marxists.academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
>>
>> ______________________________**____________
>> _____
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>
>
> --
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> ------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> http://marxists.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<http://marxists.academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
>
> ______________________________**____________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>
__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca