Re: [xmca] self-regulation

[Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>]

Francine,
Your article is fascinating.
I am intrigued by your description of *combinatory* figurative resemblance.
On page 23 you discuss *primary process* AS *lower* psychological functions.
I wonder if this primary process AS imaginal *realms* are implicated in all
types of thinking?? Including the *highest* psychological functions.
I also wonder how we distinguish *imaginal realms* from *fantasy realms*?
Mickey mouse the talking mouse is fantasy.
The imaginal realms are ways to grasp the real and the actual. You
mentioned Bateson and his notion of *regulative* patterns.
Envisioning these regulative patterns may involve *primary* figurative or
analogical reasoning and thinking and reflection may be *secondary* or
derivative FROM these *imaginal realms* (not fanciful or literal realms)

Larry


On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 9:13 AM, larry smolucha <lsmolucha@hotmail.com>wrote:

> Message from Francine,
> Larry, I will follow-up on the points you have made ( I find them
> interesting). I just haven't had time, yet.Thank you.
> > Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 09:12:16 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] self-regulation
> > From: lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >
> > Greg, Francine,
> >
> > Your question about *resemblance* of gestures and icons as tied to the
> > local situation, whereas words can be beyond the local situation is a way
> > of asking the question which Elena Cufferi is exploring.
> > Elena referenced Merleau Ponty's work and his concepts of *sedimentation*
> > and *spontaneous* in her exploring the *meaning* of gestures.
> > Exploring gesture within the deaf community is clearly entering
> *language*
> > and *sedimentation* AS cultural historical and not merely spontaneous.
> > Elena's question is much more radical. She is asking if gesture for a 12
> > month old can be used for guided/mediated self referencing within the
> > cultural historical world as *self* regulation that is extra local, and
> > therefore sedimented.
> > In other words *Gestures* in their own* essence* have BOTH qualities of
> > sedimentation AND qualities of spontaneity.
> > Our bodies are *communicating with our *self* and participating within
> life
> > worlds AS sedimented gestures at 12 months and may be primordial for
> > developing language with which it shares *resemblance*??
> >
> > The developmental stage of *private speech* as a visible expression of
> > *self* regulation of actions without reference to another person can then
> > be interpreted AS another developmental skill  within gestural
> expressions
> > as developing BOTH sedimented and spontaneous *actions* within cultural
> > historical worlds?
> >
> > This then returns us to questions of imaginal play as using *props* or
> > *pivots* AS ways of *referencing* events.
> > The question of *resemblance* (as structure, as function) within PLAY may
> > also be expressing BOTH sedimented (guided, mediated) *self* regulation
> > which is analogical (carrying over or carrying through).
> >
> > This question of *identity* (a equals b) and its relation to
> *resemblance*
> > (as relation) ) is a question I see being asked in the inquiries of
> other,
> > co and self regulation and executive functioning.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 11:15 PM, Greg Thompson
> > <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> > > Francine,
> > > Do you think that Vygotsky was right in positing that:
> > > "the spoken word has a unique function in self-regulation because it
> can be
> > > totally separate from the referent, whereas gestures and
> iconic-pictorial
> > > illustrations bear some element of resemblance."
> > > Most particularly, do you think that ASL is purely gestural and
> > > iconic-pictorial?
> > > Makes me wonder what kind of sign language Vygotsky would have been
> > > studying.
> > > Home sign?
> > > Maria Coppolla (sp?), among others, has done some really great work on
> > > Nicaraguan Sign Language. The upshot of it is that when sign language
> > > develops in a community, signs develop a fully *symbolic* capacity (cf.
> > > Peirce on "symbol") that does this work of being totally separate from
> the
> > > referent ("arbitrary", we might say, to use Saussurean terminology).
> > >
> > > But, importantly, you only get this when you have a numerous and dense
> > > community of deaf people who can develop such arbitrary signs (and
> this is
> > > a fascinating population to think about language genesis with! And
> guess
> > > where these numerous and dense communities have typically been found:
> > > Schools!). Without a significantly large and dense community of deaf
> > > people, deaf are stuck making up signs for hearing people who rely too
> > > heavily on spoken word to be able to imagine that one can do the same
> thing
> > > with gestures.
> > >
> > > What do you think?
> > > -greg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 1:05 PM, larry smolucha <lsmolucha@hotmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Message from Francine:
> > > > Larry,
> > > > You might find something useful in a 1992 book edited by Diaz and
> > > > Berktitled Private Speech (Erlbaum) - I wrote Chapter 5 on the Social
> > > > Originsof Private Speech in pretend Play.
> > > > Bodrova and Leong's Tools of the Mind Preschools have been
> recocognized
> > > > fortheir success in using verbally guided pretend play to develop
> > > > self-regulation.They are currently doing a joint research project
> with
> > > > University of Chicago researchers.Adele Diamond, a
> neuropsychologist, has
> > > > documented neurological correlatesas self-regulation developed in
> Tool of
> > > > the Mind Preschoolers.
> > > > In regard to the use of gesture for self-regulation as early as
> infancy:A
> > > > few years ago I was giving my usual lecture on how Vygotsky
> > > > transitionedfrom teaching the deaf to researching the role of speech
> in
> > > > self-regulation.I said that Vygotsky realized that the teaching of
> sign
> > > > language to the deafwas only done to teach communication with
> others, but
> > > > that speech in the hearinghad two functions 'communication and
> > > > self-regulation.' A related question is how tohelp the deaf to use
> sign
> > > > language for self-regulation. Well, there happended to bea deaf
> woman in
> > > > the class with another woman who would sign my lectures to her. It
> was a
> > > > moment of truth, I turned to them and asked if the deaf woman ever
> signs
> > > to
> > > > herself to direct her own thoughts - her answer was yes, even in her
> > > dreams.
> > > > Never-the-less, Vygotsky is quite clear that the spoken word has a
> unique
> > > > functionin self-regulation because it can be totally separate from
> the
> > > > referent, whereasgestures and iconic-pictorial illustrations bear
> some
> > > > element of resemblance.
> > > > In regard to the Vancouver school's goal of teaching self-regulatory
> > > > private speech,I can think of simple ways to help the teachers how to
> > > >  identify the types of self-regulatoryspeech that students at
> different
> > > > grade levels need  per subject area. [I just revieweda journal
> article
> > > from
> > > > the Zoology department at a University in New Zealand thatwas
> looking at
> > > > verbal self-regulation in graduate students.]
> > > > Meichenbaum's  work on Cognitive-Behavioral Modification  was
> inspred by
> > > > Vygotskyand Luria's writings, so basic steps in using private speech
> to
> > > > focus attentioncan be found in that area of research and therapy
> > > (beginning
> > > > in the 1960's).
> > > > I get the sense that Vygotskian researchers have become estranged
> from
> > > one
> > > > another(and from the associated research literatures) because of
> > > artificial
> > > > theoretical boundariesthat have been drawn.
> > > >
> > > > > Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 10:06:55 -0700
> > > > > Subject: Re: RES: [xmca] "semiotic/semantic [semicheskyj]
> analysis".
> > > Can
> > > > you  help me?
> > > > > From: lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Francine
> > > > > Thanks for the reference to Winsler's edited book, "Private Speech,
> > > > > Executive Function".
> > > > > I have read the excerpt on Google books and two topics were
> intriguing.
> > > > > The notion of *self-reflection* in 12 month old infants who were
> > > > privately
> > > > > self-regulating THROUGH gesture previously modeled by adults.
> > > > > The 2nd intriguing question is that literature may profoundly
> influence
> > > > > (constitute) a distinct TYPE of self-regulation.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would appreciate if you could email some relevant literature on
> > > > > developing self regulation through private speech.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you send to
> > > > >
> > > > > lplarry@live.com
> > > > >
> > > > > I would be grateful.
> > > > >
> > > > > Francine, the concept of *self-regulation* and *social-emotional
> > > > learning*
> > > > > is becoming a central focus in public schooling and in the
> Vancouver
> > > > school
> > > > > system has been highlighted as a central goal that all teachers
> must
> > > > > *teach*.
> > > > >
> > > > > THIS topic of *private speech* I see as a fulcrum or pivot around
> which
> > > > to
> > > > > enter dialogue at the school level.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for your generous offer.
> > > > >
> > > > > Larry
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 9:05 AM, larry smolucha <
> lsmolucha@hotmail.com
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Message from Francine,
> > > > > > We had to surrender copyright to the publisher,which is the case
> for
> > > > most
> > > > > > academic books and journals.Since the book was just published, I
> do
> > > not
> > > > > > think they would let the paperbe posted on-line just yet.
> > > > > > But if you send me  your private e-mail address, I can e-mail
> copies
> > > of
> > > > > > similarpapers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > From: jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br
> > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > Subject: RES: [xmca] "semiotic/semantic [semicheskyj]
> analysis".
> > > Can
> > > > you
> > > > > >      help    me?
> > > > > > > Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 08:05:56 -0300
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you can send the paper Smolucha, L. and Smolucha, F. (2012)
> > > > Vygotsky's
> > > > > > > Theory of Creativity inContemporary Perspectives on Research in
> > > > > > Creativity
> > > > > > > in Early Childhood Education(Information Age Publishing,
> pp.63-88)
> > > to
> > > > > > xmca?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Joao
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Mensagem original-----
> > > > > > > De: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> > > xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > > Em
> > > > > > nome
> > > > > > > de larry smolucha
> > > > > > > Enviada em: terça-feira, 23 de abril de 2013 07:42
> > > > > > > Para: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > > > > Assunto: RE: [xmca] "semiotic/semantic [semicheskyj]
> analysis". Can
> > > > you
> > > > > > help
> > > > > > > me?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Message from Francine Smolucha:
> > > > > > > Achilles,
> > > > > > > The most direct application of Vygotsky is to observe (and
> > > document)
> > > > > > howthe
> > > > > > > verbal guidance of a more knowledgeable person is internalized
> > > > assilent
> > > > > > > self-guiding inner speech. This is done through discourse
> > > > > > analysis.Sometimes
> > > > > > > there is an intermediate step where the learner speaks parts of
> > > > theverbal
> > > > > > > guidance outloud to him(her)self ( Social Speech - Private
> Speech
> > > > -Inner
> > > > > > > Speech).[Note Vygotsky used the term egocentric speech instead
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > > contemporary term private speech]. It would be great to use
> neural
> > > > > > imaging
> > > > > > > techniques to documenthow the cortical functions of the
> prefrontal
> > > > > > cortices
> > > > > > > change as the executivefunction emerges as the self-guiding
> speech
> > > is
> > > > > > > employed and internalized.
> > > > > > > Two excellent books that deal with this process are Private
> Speech,
> > > > > > > Executive Functioning, and the Development of
> VerbalSelf-Regulation
> > > > by
> > > > > > > Winsler, A,. et. al. ( Cambridge, 2009) The Prefrontal Cortex
> by
> > > > Joaquin
> > > > > > > Fuster  (Academic Press, 2009).[Pages 369-371 discuss the
> > > > development of
> > > > > > > creativity as prefrontal self-regulationof imagination with
> direct
> > > > > > reference
> > > > > > > to the work of both Vygotsky and Luria. Thisis consistent with
> my
> > > > > > > interpretation of Vygotsky's theory of creativity -
>  seeSmolucha,
> > > L.
> > > > and
> > > > > > > Smolucha, F. (2012) Vygotsky's Theory of Creativity
> inContemporary
> > > > > > > Perspectives on Research in Creativity in Early Childhood
> > > > > > > Education(Information Age Publishing, pp.63-88)] Hope this was
> of
> > > > some
> > > > > > help.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 04:28:38 +0000
> > > > > > > > Subject: [xmca] "semiotic/semantic [semicheskyj] analysis".
> Can
> > > you
> > > > > > help
> > > > > > > me?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Greetings for all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please, I understand that I have a major methodological
> problem
> > > in
> > > > my
> > > > > > > nearest research project: "how to understand human making-sense
> > > > through
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > concrete acts of a person's speech?". Along many years I had
> > > thought
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > Vygotsky's claim that "“Semiotic [and/or "semantic" =
> semicheskyj]
> > > > > > analysis
> > > > > > > is the only adequate method for the study of the systemic and
> > > > semantic
> > > > > > > structure of consciousness.” (see
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> http://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/1934/problem-consciousness.ht
> > > > > > > m). But it is not so clear how to proceed "Semiotic/semantic
> > > > analysis".
> > > > > > > Then, if you pleased, could somebody help me, shining my mind
> about
> > > > the
> > > > > > > (im)possibilities about somebody really learn *how to do* such
> kind
> > > > of
> > > > > > > analysis? Here in Brazil, close to me, there is nobody working
> with
> > > > > > > something in this direction, then I have no local resources to
> ask
> > > > for...
> > > > > > > Forgive me about the naive character of the question, but I
> really
> > > > want
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > learn about.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you very much, once more. Best wishes.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Achilles from Brazil.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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> > > --
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> > > Department of Anthropology
> > > 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > > Brigham Young University
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