Re: [xmca] voice in relation to normative and relational knowledge

[Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>]

On 15 March 2013 21:39, kellogg <kellogg59@hanmail.net> wrote:

>   Huw:
>
>
>
> Of course, "Welsh" can be perfectly prototypical (I bet you can sing!) and
> there is probably a lot more scientific literature on the origins of
> Britishness. So I assume you are really talking about syntagmatic,
> everyday, weakly framed and weakly classified understandings versus
> paradigmatic, strongly classified and framed ones, the distinction at the
> root of Basil Bernstein's idea of "pedagogical device" and at the bottom of
> his very controversial distinction between a restricted code and an
> elaborated one.
>

Semantic framing maybe a useful way to go, but I am not sure that would
pick up on the distinction accurately.

I do not see that the pedagogic aspects are central to my question, unless
it so happens that the channel through which the conceptual appreciations
are acquired retain communicative style.

The distinction I am interested in, from a psychological perspective, is
relating to memories "as is" or to relate to one's recollections actively
(thinking).  Hence there is room for confusion around learning conceptual
material -- one can repeat the formulation that a square's sides are of
equal length in a rather unthinking way.

For example, I think we can discern at times when people speak in a
reflective, thoughtful and exploratory way as opposed to a dogmatic or
"everyday" (normative) manner.

Jay's book with the transcripts may be useful, thanks.  I don't have too
much time to wade through theoretical frameworks right now.  Transcripts
with analysis revealing this distinction is what I'm after.

Thanks for your prompts, and interest, David.

Huw


>
> Bernstein put forward this distinction to explain why working class kids
> were not doing well in schools in post-war Britain, and he was criticized a
> lot (and often unfairly, e.g. by William Labov) for blaming the victim and
> creating a deficit model of working class culture. A lot of the same
> criticisms that are made of Vygotsky's ideas about primitivism.
>
>
>
> But Bernstein's model has been thoroughly operationalized for classroom
> data by the systemic functional linguists (Halliday, Hasan, Painter,
> Cloran, and others). It seems to me tht his distinction is one of the facts
> that people dislike but which is empirically true (although I think it
> doesn't really explain what Bernstein set out to explain because by the
> time kids are in middle school they talk like each other and not like their
> parents).
>
>
>
> There are a lot of good studies in that direction:
>
>
>
> Bernstein, B. (1996, 2000) Pedagogy, Symbolic Control and Identity.
> Lanham, MD: Rowan and Littlefield
>
> Christie F. and J.R. Martin (eds) (2007) Languages, Knowledge and
> Pedagogy. London: Continuum.
>
> Christie, F. (ed) (1999). Pedagogy and the Shaping of Consciousness.
> London: Continuum.
>
>
>
> And don't forget:
>
>
>
> Lemke, J. (1990) Talking Science. Norwood, NJ: Ablex
>
> Halliday, M.A.K. and Martin, J.R. (1993) Writing Science. Pittsburgh:
> University of Pittsburgh Press.
>
>
>
>
>
> David Kellogg
>
> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
>
>
>
>
> --------- 원본 메일 ---------
>
> *보낸사람*: Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> *받는사람* : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> *날짜*: 2013년 3월 15일 금요일, 22시 17분 33초 +0900
> *제목*: [xmca] voice in relation to normative and relational knowledge
> Can anyone point me to studies that have explored the differences between
> recollections/descriptions of circumstances on the basis of normative (i.e.
> prototypical) and relational (i.e. scientific conceptual) knowledge,
> please?
>
> For instance, with respect to Identity, I can normatively describe myself
> as British. But if I feel the need for more precision, then I can relate
> to my Welsh phylogeny etc.
>
> Examples pertinent to the classroom would be especially good.
>
> Thanks,
> Huw
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