Re: [xmca] Re: xmca Digest, Vol 93, Issue 13

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Good luck in your new publishing enterprise, Eduardo.
mike

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Negueruela, Eduardo <enegueruela@miami.edu
> wrote:

> Dear all:
>
> We are pleased to announce a new peer-reviewed journal published by
> Equinox: Language & Sociocultural Theory.
>
> Language and Sociocultural Theory is an international journal devoted to
> the study of language from the perspective of Vygotskian sociocultural
> theory.
>
> Articles appearing in the journal may draw upon research in the following
> fields of study: linguistics and applied linguistics, psychology and
> cognitive science, anthropology, cultural studies, and education.
> Particular emphasis is placed on applied research grounded on sociocultural
> theory where language is central to understanding cognition, communication,
> culture, learning and development. The journal especially focuses on
> research that explores the role of language in the theory itself, including
> inner and private speech, internalization, verbalization, gesticulation,
> cognition, and conceptual development. Work that explores connections
> between sociocultural theory and meaning-based theories of language also
> fits the journal’s scope.
>
> You will find more information about the journal in the following link:
>
>
> https://www.equinoxpub.com/journals/index.php/LST/index
>
>
> We invite you to consider L & SCT when submitting your articles for
> publication.
> Best,
> eduardo
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Eduardo Negueruela-Azarola, PhD
> Associate Professor, Spanish Second Language Acquisition & Applied
> Linguistics
> Spanish Basic Language Program, Director
>
> University of Miami
> Department of Modern Languages and Literatures
> Merrick Bldg. 212-5
> University of Miami
> Coral Gables, FL 33124
>
> enegueruela@miami.edu<mailto:enegueruela@miami.edu>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> On Feb 16, 2013, at 3:00 PM, <xmca-request@weber.ucsd.edu<mailto:
> xmca-request@weber.ucsd.edu>>
>  <xmca-request@weber.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-request@weber.ucsd.edu>> wrote:
>
> Send xmca mailing list submissions to
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> xmca-request@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> xmca-owner@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of xmca digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Reading Piaget again... (mike cole)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 12:53:47 -0800
> From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Reading Piaget again...
> To: "Goncu, Artin" <goncu@uic.edu>
> Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <CAHCnM0AF2kz4gURZdqCst7yQoOUa+4RTpSdU_mJnJrrB=irsxA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> All -- Here is the link to the Newletter discussion Artin is referring to:
>
> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/newsletters.html
>
> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Goncu, Artin <goncu@uic.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> Piaget and Vygotsky comparisons are of interest to many us for many
> reasons.  Trying to understand the similarities and differences between
> their stances regarding the role of culture in development is one
> motivation for this.  The LCHC Newletter made provisions for this issue
> also.  For example, a group of us from Chicago addressed how the two men
> conceptualized the role of culture in play, language, affect, and
> creativity in a 1988 collection that was published in the Newsletter.  It
> is this background that led me to send my post here.  ag
>
>
> On Thu, February 14, 2013 10:50 am, mike cole wrote:
> Very interesting that this issue should come before the group, Artin. And
> great to hear from Jonathan
> and get a 1962 reference for the Piaget position, at that time, that
> stages
> were universal but the rate of attaining them culturally variable
> depending
> upon the "mental food value" of the culture.
>
> This period of his thinking, as I understand it, came from a unesco
> conference and a book by tanner (a student of biological growth) and
> Inhelder where he was interacting with anthropologists such as Margaret
> Mead.
>
> This is the position, when combined with the presumed intellectual
> consequences of schooling led to Bruner's conclusion that some cultures
> promote cognitive development faster and FURTHER than others.
>
> An extensive LCHC discussion of these issues circa 1983 can be found
> here:
> Note the list of contributing
> authors.
>
> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Pubs/Culture-CognitiveDev.pdf
>
> There has been a lot of subsequent work (Smith, Duveen,
> Perret-Clermont......) on the social/cultural elements elabortable from
> Piagetian ideas.
>
> The LCHC position focused on decalage and social mechanisms organizing
> what
> now it is discussed
> as trajectories through sociocultural linked and sociocultural organized,
> systems of activities/cultural practices.
>
> Adding biological history back into the discussion of ontogeny seems to
> me
> to be a priority for the developmental of a CHAT-informed theory of
> ontogeny.
>
> But that is a discussion for another day. Getting straignt the role of
> culture in Piaget and Vygotsky's views seems a very important task.
>
> methinks.
> mike
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 8:22 AM, Goncu, Artin <goncu@uic.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thank you, Jon. I didn't mention Piaget's references to parent-child
> interaction in "the Moral Judgment" since the entire book is about the
> role of adult-child relationship and its relevance to moral development.
> ag
>
>
> On Wed, February 13, 2013 6:49 pm, Jonathan Tudge wrote:
> Artin and Huw,
>
> I have students read the following as part of my Piaget offerings in a
> theories class:
> Piaget, J. (1973). *The child and reality: Problems of genetic
> psychology*.
> New York: Grossman. Chapter 1: ?Time and the intellectual development
> of
> the child? (original work published in 1962).
>
> It's quite clear in this chapter that Piaget was more than willing to
> acknowledge the influence of both social class and culture, not in
> changing
> the order through which children would pass through stages of
> development
> but in speeding up or slowing down the age at which they'd be likely
> to
> show evidence of being in one or other stage.
>
> He wrote "stages are precisely characterized by their set order of
> succession. They are not stages which can be given a constant
> chronological
> date. On the contrary, the ages can vary from one society to
> another..."
> (p. 10).  (As this chapter was initially presented as a lecture he
> somewhere or other, tongue-in-cheek no doubt, mentions that the
> children
> of
> his listeners undoubtedly go through the stages faster.)  Towards the
> end
> of the chapter he wrote as follows:
> "Moreover, we will find collective accelerations in certain social
> classes
> and in certain milieux" (pp. 25-26), and went on to discuss
> differences
> in
> children's responses in Geneva, Montreal,  Martinique (a delay of
> approximately four years), Tehran (similar to Geneva), and rural Iran
> (a
> delay of approximately 2.5 years).
>
> We can, of course, argue about the manner in which non-schooled
> children
> were tested (as Mike and others have done very effectively), but it's
> really hard to say that Piaget held that culture or class were
> irrelevant
> to children's cognitive development.
>
> In the book that Artin mentioned you can also find lots of evidence of
> the
> ways in which parents and children influence children's social and
> moral
> development--yet still we're confronted with the image of Piaget's
> child
> being the little scientist working alone on the mysteries of the
> world.
>
> All the best,
>
> Jon
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Jonathan Tudge
> Professor
> Office: 155 Stone
> ***Important*** Please note that I have a new office phone line***
>
> Mailing address:
> 248 Stone Building
> Department of Human Development and Family Studies
> PO Box 26170
> The University of North Carolina at Greensboro
> Greensboro, NC 27402-6170
> USA
>
> phone (336) 223-6181. [However, given the amount I travel, it's best
> to
> communicate with me by email.]
> fax   (336) 334-5076
>
> http://www.uncg.edu/hdf/facultystaff/Tudge/Tudge.html
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 7:16 PM, Huw Lloyd
> <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> On 13 February 2013 21:19, Goncu, Artin <goncu@uic.edu> wrote:
>
>
> In re-reading Piaget for a class I teach, I saw the following
> sentences
> in
> "The Moral Judgement of the Child" that I had underlined many years
> ago,
> noticed them again, and felt that he may not have been given
> sufficient
> credit for his observations about the role of culture and class in
> his
> discussions.  On p. 209-10 referring to the findings he has just
> reported,
> he says "To begin with, they relate only to the children belonging
> to
> a
> certain ethnical (sic) group and a certain social stratum (the
> poorer
> parts of Geneva and a few children from an elementary school at
> Neuchatel.)  I wish he had theorized about the role of culture and
> class,
> going beyond these observations but that is another story...
>
>
> My reading recollection is that he is forever hedging his bets and
> encumbered by an audience expecting a "rational" account of genetic
> phenomena.  On one occasion I was hunting about for some Piagetian
> ideas
> that, I was confident, were laid out with clarity only to discover
> that
> is
> was Vygotsky writing about Piaget.
>
> No doubt there's much more to it -- the influence of idioms such as
> French
> sociologists and psychologists, translations etc.
>
> Huw
>
>
>
>
> Artin Goncu, Ph.D
> Professor,
> Educational Psychology
> College of Education M/C 147
> 1040 W. Harrison St.
> Chicago, IL 60607
> http://education.uic.edu/epsy/browseour%20faculty.cfm
> (312) 996-5259
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
>
> Artin Goncu, Ph.D
> Professor,
> Educational Psychology
> College of Education M/C 147
> 1040 W. Harrison St.
> Chicago, IL 60607
> http://education.uic.edu/epsy/browseour%20faculty.cfm
> (312) 996-5259
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
>
> Artin Goncu, Ph.D
> Professor,
> Educational Psychology
> College of Education M/C 147
> 1040 W. Harrison St.
> Chicago, IL 60607
> http://education.uic.edu/epsy/browseour%20faculty.cfm
> (312) 996-5259
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
> End of xmca Digest, Vol 93, Issue 13
> ************************************
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca