RE: [xmca] VS: Coding Logical Sophistication in Dialogic Pedagogy

[David H Kirshner <dkirsh@lsu.edu>]

No, individual, rather than collective, intelligence, but as emerging within social processes.
David


-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 11:06 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re: [xmca] VS: Coding Logical Sophistication in Dialogic Pedagogy

So the core of your project could be characterized as a an exploration of the conditions that promote social or collective, intelligence, David? I am thinking Dewey here. Or do I have it wrong?

The virtual realist/hypercontextualist antimony sure invites interesting metaphors for how to characterize the process of superceding them. I am not so sure about stradling as a metaphor for the requisite process of unification rather than weaving.

signed
A hyper non-virtual contextual realist.
:-)
mike

On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 8:51 AM, David H Kirshner <dkirsh@lsu.edu> wrote:

> Hi David
> Thanks for highlighting the bogeypersons of virtual-realists whose 
> reductionist zeal leads to little of value and hypercontextualists 
> whose wide-eyed wonder at the complexness of it all becomes its own 
> grave—and for highlighting the virtues of straddling.
> Fortunately, our goal isn’t the normative project of thinking about 
> how to get logically unsophisticated thinkers to become sophisticated. 
> What we’re after are the processes at the group level that result in 
> (what we predict will be) increasing sophistication overall. So, I 
> think we’re already straddling.
> David
> PS. My thanks to those, on- and off-line, who already have responded 
> to the request. We’ve gotten some interesting leads, and will report 
> back on what we find.
>
>
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] 
> On Behalf Of kellogg
> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 3:16 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: RE: [xmca] VS: Coding Logical Sophistication in Dialogic 
> Pedagogy
>
>
> David:
>
>
>
> Your posting straddles two threads--Dialogic Pedagogy and coding. Let 
> me see if I can do the same thing!
>
>
>
> There was a wonderful article by Alessandro Duranti on transcription 
> in MCA a while back (Vol. 13 No. 4) where he points out that 
> transcription IS coding. When you transcribe, you begin by making one 
> of two assumptions, which Duranti calls "virtual realism" on the one 
> hand and "hypercontextualism" on the other.
>
>
>
> Virtual realists are like children who think that sites on the 
> internet are places they can actually visit. They talk to their 
> transcripts as if the people in them were real. They look at 
> transcripts and ask themselves which students are more logical and 
> which students are less, and they try to figure out how the less 
> logical students can be more like the more logical ones.
>
>
>
> Hypercontextualists are like escapees from Plato's cave. They are 
> always saying "Yes, but it's more complicated than that" but they are 
> not particularly good at saying why or why it matters. Duranti points 
> out that there is a good reason for that: they imagine that there is 
> an Edenic unmediated reality lying just beyond the horizon of the 
> transcript to which the participants once had direct access. The task, 
> by its very nature Sisyphean, is to try to reconstruct that unmediated 
> reality and to hell with coding.
>
>
>
> Duranti's conclusion is that we have to give up the illusion that in 
> transcribing we are recording what went on (and, I would hasten to 
> add, that in coding we are evaluating and comparing what went on with 
> some kind of norm). Now, my reasoning is a little different from 
> Duranti's (it has to do with the distinction between "text" which is 
> finished and complete and somehow "epic", locked in the past, and  
> "discourse" which is ongoing and by its very nature not finalizable), 
> but as far as I can tell my conclusions are the same.
>
>
>
> Duranti says that you have to treat a particular transcript and a 
> particular coding scheme as a particular point of view, and not as a 
> picture of unmediated reality. The object of study then becomes the 
> point of view and not the picture of unmediated reality. So I guess 
> Duranti would say that the way to look at the data is to ask the 
> student to (who is presumably the teacher) to find a MOST logical 
> argument and a SECOND MOST logical argument (or something like that) 
> and then maybe a LEAST logical argument and then to try to figure out 
> what the two "logical" arguments have in common that the not-so-logical argument doesn't.
>
>
>
> That doesn't give you a coding scheme for the transcript. It's 
> actually better, particularly for a student working under a professor 
> like David Kirshner, whose main interest is always teasing apart the 
> various threads of pedagogical thought in a given teacher. It gives 
> you a coding scheme for understanding the teacher's point of view.
>
>
>
> Now, the reason I think this straddles both threads is that I find 
> Duranti's article an almost perfect example of the kind of thing I 
> would like to publish and yet I find almost impossible to publish. For 
> many years this didn't bother me, because I didn't have to publish to 
> keep my (extremely low paid) job, so I just wrote what I liked and 
> didn't take much notice of the (increasingly hysterical) rejections 
> that came in. But now, alas, I am in the position of most assistant 
> professors; if I don't publish at least once a year, I will find 
> myself without contract in my dotage. I guess that's the sad part of 
> the situation, but who has time to cry about it?
>
>
>
> David Kellogg
>
> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
>
>
> --------- 원본 메일 ---------
> 보낸사람: Rauno Huttunen <rakahu@utu.fi<mailto:rakahu@utu.fi>>
> 받는사람 : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu<mailto:
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>,"lchcmike@gmail.com<mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>" 
> < lchcmike@gmail.com<mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
> 참조 : Indira V Chillara <ichill1@tigers.lsu.edu<mailto:
> ichill1@tigers.lsu.edu>>
> 날짜: 2013년 1월 21일 월요일, 00시 47분 06초 +0900
> 제목: [xmca] VS: Coding Logical Sophistication in Dialogic Pedagogy 
> Hello,
>
> Phenomenography has been used with this kind of data but in the 
> purpose of finding logical sophistication of arguments but to describe 
> the variation of the ways of understandings (a.k.a. outcome space). 
> The founder of phenomenography Ference Marton himself has done this kind of research.
>
> Rauno Huttunen
>
>
> ________________________________________
> Lähettäjä: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu< 
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> es@weber.ucsd.edu>
> [xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu<
> http://mail2.daum.net/hanmail/mail/MailComposeFrame.daum?TO=xmca-bounc
> es@weber.ucsd.edu>] käyttäjän David H Kirshner [dkirsh@lsu.edu< 
> http://mail2.daum.net/hanmail/mail/MailComposeFrame.daum?TO=dkirsh@lsu
> .edu>]
> puolesta
> Lähetetty: 20. tammikuuta 2013 15:00
> Vastaanottaja: lchcmike@gmail.com<
> http://mail2.daum.net/hanmail/mail/MailComposeFrame.daum?TO=lchcmike@g
> mail.com>;
> eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Cc: Indira V Chillara
> Aihe: [xmca] Coding Logical Sophistication in Dialogic Pedagogy
>
> Speaking of dialogic pedagogy--congratulations, Eugene!--a student of 
> mine has taught a geometry class with a view to observing effects on 
> the logical sophistication of students' argumentation.
> She's transcribed the data of classroom discussions, and is now trying 
> to find a coding scheme for analyzing the logical sophistication of arguments.
> Does anyone have any leads on this?
> Thanks.
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu<
> http://mail2.daum.net/hanmail/mail/MailComposeFrame.daum?TO=xmca-bounc
> es@weber.ucsd.edu>
> [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu<
> http://mail2.daum.net/hanmail/mail/MailComposeFrame.daum?TO=xmca-bounc
> es@weber.ucsd.edu>]
> On Behalf Of mike cole
> Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 8:51 PM
> To: xmca
> Subject: [xmca] Re: Dialogic Pedagogy Journal has been born!
>
> Hi- Sorry if this is a repeat.
>
> i think we all understand that the status of academic publishing is 
> pretty sad and I think that we are all seeking a better set of 
> practices -- although there is probably no concensus on "better"
>
> So what better than to try to embody theory in practice and begin a 
> dialogic journal? !!
>
> Thanks to Eugene and all his compatriots for opening up this new form 
> of publication.
> Mike
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 6:18 PM, Eugene Matusov <ematusov@udel.edu< 
> http://mail2.daum.net/hanmail/mail/MailComposeFrame.daum?TO=ematusov@u
> del.edu>>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear colleague-****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > We happy to inform that after 9 months of pregnancy (and hard work!) 
> > the Dialogic Pedagogy: An International Online Journal has been born!
> > Please see its link at http://dpj.pitt.edu<http://dpj.pitt.edu/> 
> > ****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > Our Open Access journal has four sites:****
> >
> > ***1) ****DPJ Published Content site open to everybody for published 
> > papers and comments on them and public announcements (e.g., about 
> > upcoming conferences relevant to DP);*
> >
> > ***2) ****DPJ Community Space site open only to Dialogic Pedagogy 
> > Journal (DPJ) community members for discussion of submitted papers 
> > and many
> > more;*
> >
> > ***3) ****DPJ Public Space WordPress open to everybody for 
> > information on Dialogic Pedagogy (wiki, recommended literature, and 
> > so on);
> > *
> >
> > **4) **DPJ Community Space WordPress open only to DPJ community 
> > members for diverse forums (e.g., providing feedback on work in 
> > progress, discussion recorded innovative pedagogical practices, 
> > discussion of the issues on Dialogic Pedagogy, and so on) -- *still 
> > work
> in progress*(please be patient with us).
> > ****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > Please read our first Editorial:
> > http://dpj.pitt.edu/ojs/index.php/dpj1/article/view/14/9 and Focus 
> > and Scope<
> http://dpj.pitt.edu/ojs/index.php/dpj1/about/editorialPolicies#focusAn
> dScope>of
> the Journal.
> > ****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > To become a DPJ member, you need to register on the DPJ site. 
> > Becoming a DPJ member allow you to submit papers and participate in 
> > discussion of published and submitted papers and so on. You do not 
> > need to register to read DPJ publications.****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > Call for papers and participation:****
> >
> > We invite you to submit your wonderful papers to DPJ<
> http://dpj.pitt.edu/ojs/index.php/dpj1/information/authors>.
> > We also want to invite you for a discussion of the submitted papers 
> > (we already have some!).****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > We use collaborative Dialogic Pedagogy philosophy to guide us about 
> > the review process of submitted manuscripts. It is different from 
> > many academic journals - please read DPJ Review 
> > Policy<http://dpj.pitt.edu/ojs/index.php/dpj1/about/editorialPolicie
> > s#<
> http://dpj.pitt.edu/ojs/index.php/dpj1/about/editorialPolicies>
> > peerReviewProcess>
> > .****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > Call for becoming
> > reviewers<http://dpj.pitt.edu/ojs/index.php/dpj1/login?source=%2Fojs
> > %2<
> http://dpj.pitt.edu/ojs/index.php/dpj1/login?source=%2Fojs%252>
> > Findex.php%2Fdpj1%2Fuser%2Fprofile>
> > ****
> >
> > Call for becoming a member of the DPJ Editorial 
> > Board<dpjournals@mail.pitt.edu<
> http://mail2.daum.net/hanmail/mail/MailComposeFrame.daum?TO=dpjournals
> @mail.pitt.edu
> >>
> > ****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > To discuss the first manuscript submitted to the DPJ, please, go to 
> > (DPJ Community Space <http://dpj.pitt.edu/ojs/index.php/dpj2/index> 
> > -> Current -> [Title of the article]): Rereading Comprehension
> > Pedagogies: Toward a Dialogic Teaching Ethic that Honors Student 
> > Sensemaking<http://dpj.pitt.edu/ojs/index.php/dpj2/article/view/13>(
> > re gistration and login is required to access this article and to 
> > discuss it online). To discuss the paper click on Add 
> > Comment<http://dpj.pitt.edu/ojs/index.php/dpj2/comment/add/13/0>
> > ).****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > Thanks A LOT for all who helped in starting the journal!****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > Let us know if you have questions. Please pass this info to your 
> > colleagues who may be interested in Dialogic Pedagogy. Sorry, if you 
> > get this message several times.****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > See you on the DPJ sites,****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > Eugene Matusov, DPJ Editor-in-Chief, University of Delaware, USA****
> >
> > Ana Marjanovic-Shane, DPJ Deputy Editor-in-Chief, Chestnut Hill 
> > College,
> > USA****
> >
> > Yifat Ben-David Kolikant, DPJ Deputy Editor-in-Chief, Hebrew 
> > University,
> > Israel****
> >
> > ----------------------------****
> >
> > Eugene Matusov, PhD****
> >
> > Professor of Education****
> >
> > School of Education****
> >
> > 16 W Main st****
> >
> > University of Delaware****
> >
> > Newark, DE 19716, USA****
> >
> > ** **
> >
> > Publications: http://ematusov.soe.udel.edu/vita/publications.htm****
> >
> > DiaPed: http://diaped.soe.udel.edu<http://diaped.soe.udel.edu/>****
> >
> > ----------------------------****
> >
> > ** **
> >
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