Re: [xmca] "Rising to the concrete"

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Thanks for the extra connections, Peg. I'll track them down and perhaps we
can return to Sayeki's work if people find it useful.

mike

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Peg Griffin <peg.griffin@att.net> wrote:

> There are some recent studies of PM (physical manipulation) and CM
> (computer manipulation) and IM (imaginary manipulation) that might be
> interesting to consider here, Mike and Andy ( more the studies themselves
> than the framework/background that motivate them.)
>
> Here's the general issue and some references:
> Kids who read sometimes don't comprehend.
> Telling them to visualize or imagine (IM) as a comprehension strategy is
> like telling a sad person to be happy. They don't really see what it means
> to go about that.
> But, if they learn to do PM or CM while reading some passages and then are
> advised to do the same but without the physical objects or the interactive
> computer objects (so it is IM), they can then do the IM and even do it on
> new passages they never did any PM or CM on. It works on narrative and
> expository passages.
> Glenberg, A.M., Goldberg, A. B. & Zhu, X. (2011)  Improving early reading
> comprehension using embodied CAI. Instructional Sciences, 39(1), 27–39.
> Glenberg, A.M., Willford, J., Gibson, B., Goldberg, A. B. & Zhu, X.
> (2011). Improving reading to improve math. Scientific Studies of Reading.
> DOI: 10.1080/10888438.2011.564245
> Glenberg, A.M., Sato, M. & Cattaneo, L.  (2011).  Use-induced motor
> plasticity affects the processing of abstract and concrete language.
>  Current Biology, 18(7), R290-291
>
> It's reminiscent of our marshmallow simulations of those genetically
> primary Pond problems, huh, Mike?
> And here is one older piece along the same lines that might be interesting
> to look at – the abstract starts this way: “This article explores the
> nature of the conceptual knowledge retrieved when people use words to think
> about objects. Suppose that conceptual knowledge is used to simulate and
> guide action in the world.”
> Borghi, A. M., Glenberg, A. M. &. Kaschak, M. P. (2004). Putting words in
> perspective.  Memory and Cognition.  32 (6), 863-873Peg
>
> --- On Wed, 8/15/12, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] "Rising to the concrete"
> To: lchcmike@gmail.com
> Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2012, 9:21 PM
>
>
>
> As I see it Mike, the reason that a set-up which facilitates the subject
> imaginatively putting themselves into the object, leads to quicker solution
> of the problem because it mobilises the highly developed sense we have of
> our own body. Although wrong about much else, I think Lakoff was right
> about the central place of spatial and other visceral metaphors lying at
> the root of our ability to understand things, including concept formation
> and the formation of language. Likewise, I think the whole range of social
> feelings we have - shame, fear of disapproval, desire for recognition,
> respect for norms of behaviour, etc., as well as knowledge of the various
> objects which populate our social world, key in our understanding of
> concepts which have an essentially social existence. Just as my feet and
> shoulders twitch when I watch a tennis match, I think similar but deeper
> processes are going on when I recognise or think about things which are
> conceptualised in a
>  particular way in the social environment I am in. If this is the kind of
> thing you have in mind, then I believe I understand you. The same
> considerations also engage the concepts of abstract and concrete, but you
> seemed to be hinting at a more immediate connection which at the moment is
> just escaping me.
>
> Perhaps you could explain?
>
> Andy
>
> mike cole wrote:
> Thanks for posting the link to the paper, Andy.
>
>
> I believe that a starting point is to ask the following question(s):
>
>
> 1. What is it that accounts for the increase in time to carry out a mental
> rotation for the plain
> conglomeration of blocks?
>
>
> 2. Whatever the process is, why is it that the amount of rotation is
> irrelevant if the figure has
> a schematic face/head on it in a place where it appears person-like?
>
>
> Maybe all the concrete is between my ears.
> mike
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>
> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/ap81v3n2.PDF p.16
>
> Mike, I also, at first had the same problem with motorscooter indicator,
> and I used a different but similar tactic to overcome it. Also, as a civil
> engineer I learnt that it was essential to imagine yourself as the building
> in order to nknow where the stresses would be and effectively design it,
> and most difficult problems, up to the point of calculations could be
> solved this way.
>
> But ... :) ... I can't see what this has to do with abstract and concrete.
> Can you explain?
>
>
> Andy
>
> mike cole wrote:
>
> A wonderful paper by Yutaka Sayeki (with two key figures reversed, but it
> is obvious where the mistake was made when you read it) has an example of
> what I take to be almost a "measure" of rising to the concrete (see also
> Davydov's ideas on the topic).
>
> Its part of a special issue of the newsletter. Accessible to anyone at
> lchc.ucsd.edu <http://lchc.ucsd.edu>
>
> *
>
> Volume 3, Number 2 April 1981
>
> *
>
> AZUMA, Hiroshi: /A Note on Cross-Cultural Study/
>
> INAGAKI, Kayoko: /Facilitation of Knowledge Integration through /
>
> /Classroom Discussion/
>
> KASHIWAGI, Keiko: /Note on the Socialization Processes in Japan/
>
> HATANO, Giyoo, KUHARA, Keiko, and AKIYAMA, Michael: /Kanji Help /
>
> /Readers of Japanese Infer the Meaning of Unfamiliar Words/
>
> SAITO, Hirofumi/: Toward Comparative Studies in Reading Kanji and /
>
> /Kana/
>
> SAYEKI, Yutaka: /"Body Analogy" and the Cognition of Rotated Figures/
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 5:24 AM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com<mailto:
> huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     On 15 August 2012 13:01, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
>     <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>
>     > Well, these issues are not going to be solved in 5 minutes, Huw.
>     Analog
>     > and digital belong to a completely different frame than the
>     concepts of
>     > abstract/concrete and general/universal which I think Greg asked
>     about
>     > initially.
>     >
>
>     Analog was an elaboration.  This point is not necessary to resolve
>     "universal" in the Lenin quote.
>
>     Huw
>
>
>     >
>     > Let me be brief then. Ilyenkov famously makes the point that
>     (exchange)
>     > value is an ideal, but it is also real. The market implements a
>     process of
>     > abstracting the value of commodities but it is the very
>     concreteness of the
>     > market which makes that process possible.
>
>     Democracy is an ideal which really motivates millions of people and
>     > underpins constitutional governments.
>     >
>
>     > Universal suffrage allows that insane people, criminals and
>     children do
>     > not vote. And what is more, when the President is elected, only
>     the votes
>     > of 51% count. (There are of course plenty of "Ah, but ..."s
>     about this, but
>     > this is what is meant by the difference between the general and the
>     > universal.)
>     >
>     > http://www.marxists.org/**reference/archive/hegel/works/**
>     >
>     sl/slsubjec.htm#SL163n1b<
> http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sl/slsubjec.htm#SL163n1b
> >
>     >
>     > Andy
>     >
>     >
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>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
>
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> --
>
>
> *Andy Blunden*
> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
>
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