Re: [xmca] Piaget in Vygotsky 1962

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

At the very least we can agree that egocentrism is a life long disease!
mike


On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the 2 versions of this response by Piaget.
>
> I was interested in Piaget's comments on egocentrism [page 3] when he was
> talking about unconscious preferential focusing and a lack of
> differentiation of viewponts.  He gives the example of the beginning
> instructor who soon discovers that his first lectures were incomprehensible
> because he was *talking to himself*, so to say, mindful only of his own
> point of view. The second example Piaget gives is developing the capacity
> to place oneself in the shoes of the other [taking the point of view of
> one's partner] in order to convince the other *on his own ground*.
>
> As I read Piaget's explanation of egocentrism [and its
> continuing expression throughout the lifespan] I was wondering if this
> ability [achievement?] to decenter and shift perspectives can be viewed as
> an *art* form or a *skill* that requires certain dialogical *ways* of
> expression.
> This leads to further wondering if the *distortions* in our current
> housing arrangements; for example how we are becoming more *self*-contained
> and  living *solo* [50% of all residences in New York city are occupied by
> a single occupant] may be  having the unintended consequence that we may
> be loosing the *art* form of *social* reasoning.
>
> I guess a counter argument could be made that living alone requires more
> *skill* in decentering as we are constantly thrown into novel discursive
> situations.
>
> Just wondering.
>
> Larry
>
> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 2:33 PM, David Kellogg <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike:
>>
>> Actually, the version up on the Marxists Internet Archive is missing a
>> page and Parsons' translation, although good, is not complete in places.
>>
>> Here's a version we did, alongside the standard translation. The boxes
>> are part of a discussion we had in our group when we were doing T&S in
>> Korean.
>>
>> I didn't answer your last on Basov, mostly because I was trying to find
>> some Basov beyod what was published in the JREEP myself. Besides that, the
>> only thing I know about Basov is the (generally very favorable) references
>> in HDHMF.
>>
>> What surprises me is that both Basov and Vygotsky are indebted to
>> Volkelt, of all people, for the distinction between analysis into units and
>> analysis into elements! And where exactly did Vygotsky get the idea that
>> behavior evolves just as organs do, if not from Lorenz and Tinbergen? It
>> might be from Jennings, but in Jennings it's not exactly behavior itself
>> that evolves; only the affordances of an organism's internal organs.
>>
>> David Kellogg
>> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Fri, 4/6/12, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
>> Subject: [xmca] Piaget in Vygotsky 1962
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> Date: Friday, April 6, 2012, 10:43 AM
>>
>>
>> Does anyone have a copy of Piaget's piece on Thought and Language from
>> 1962?
>> mike
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>
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