Re: [xmca] Piaget in Vygotsky 1962

[Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>]

Thanks for the 2 versions of this response by Piaget.

I was interested in Piaget's comments on egocentrism [page 3] when he was
talking about unconscious preferential focusing and a lack of
differentiation of viewponts.  He gives the example of the beginning
instructor who soon discovers that his first lectures were incomprehensible
because he was *talking to himself*, so to say, mindful only of his own
point of view. The second example Piaget gives is developing the capacity
to place oneself in the shoes of the other [taking the point of view of
one's partner] in order to convince the other *on his own ground*.

As I read Piaget's explanation of egocentrism [and its
continuing expression throughout the lifespan] I was wondering if this
ability [achievement?] to decenter and shift perspectives can be viewed as
an *art* form or a *skill* that requires certain dialogical *ways* of
expression.
This leads to further wondering if the *distortions* in our current housing
arrangements; for example how we are becoming more *self*-contained and
living *solo* [50% of all residences in New York city are occupied by a
single occupant] may be  having the unintended consequence that we may
be loosing the *art* form of *social* reasoning.

I guess a counter argument could be made that living alone requires more
*skill* in decentering as we are constantly thrown into novel discursive
situations.

Just wondering.

Larry

On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 2:33 PM, David Kellogg <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com>wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
> Mike:
>
> Actually, the version up on the Marxists Internet Archive is missing a
> page and Parsons' translation, although good, is not complete in places.
>
> Here's a version we did, alongside the standard translation. The boxes are
> part of a discussion we had in our group when we were doing T&S in Korean.
>
> I didn't answer your last on Basov, mostly because I was trying to find
> some Basov beyod what was published in the JREEP myself. Besides that, the
> only thing I know about Basov is the (generally very favorable) references
> in HDHMF.
>
> What surprises me is that both Basov and Vygotsky are indebted to Volkelt,
> of all people, for the distinction between analysis into units and analysis
> into elements! And where exactly did Vygotsky get the idea that behavior
> evolves just as organs do, if not from Lorenz and Tinbergen? It might be
> from Jennings, but in Jennings it's not exactly behavior itself that
> evolves; only the affordances of an organism's internal organs.
>
> David Kellogg
> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 4/6/12, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> Subject: [xmca] Piaget in Vygotsky 1962
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Friday, April 6, 2012, 10:43 AM
>
>
> Does anyone have a copy of Piaget's piece on Thought and Language from
> 1962?
> mike
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