Re: [xmca] Cultural memory

[ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org]

Ah yes Andy:

We get back to that question always on the back burner: what is a concept 
in relation to mediation and activity?

It is interesting to not that the Hmong language has no word for 
'justice'.  Without the word is the concept present?

eric



From:   Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
To:     Arturo Escandon <arturo.escandon@gmail.com>
Cc:     "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Date:   10/19/2011 08:42 AM
Subject:        Re: [xmca] Cultural memory
Sent by:        xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu



Thanks Arturo.
I think this thread has established that all kinds of artefacts 
(including the land, and the voice) play a role in maintaining 
normativity but no clear case can be made that voice alone is 
insufficient. The only way that the centrality of mediation can be 
established is by the results produced by analysis of artefact-mediated 
actions, as against the approaches which regard words and things as 
incidental to "intersubjective" communication.

The difficulty arose in the course of giving an account of concepts. 
Account of concepts (a variety of normativity) given by 
intersubjectivists is easily geared to childhood, a domain of activity 
which is entirely within the scope of interpersonal interactions using 
voice, gesture and body.

Mmmm
Andy

Arturo Escandon wrote:
> Hi there.
>
> I believe Polynesians qualify up to a certain point. Look at the links
> between people form Tahiti, Rapa Nui and Aotearoa in terms of
> normative before they were alphabetised by Western colonizers.
>
> The problem of course is that most ancient cultures had very similar
> normatives (as J. Frazer explores in The Golden Bough), at least in
> terms of normative for king succession, mixing roles of king and
> priest, gender roles and taboos, and so forth. The question would be
> to focus on a particular area of normative where you could find
> radical differences. Yet, succession normative is always accompanied
> by what Bourdieu called the 'august apparel', e.g. the scepter, the
> crown, feathers, bodily paint, even the use of animal skins, etc.
> Taboos are linked to contaminating magic (mediated by artefacts, human
> tissue, hair, etc.). So I do not see how can someone get rid of
> cultural tools other than speech in the analysis of normative.
>
> Best
>
> Arturo
>
>
>
> On 15 October 2011 08:54, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> 
>> I need some help. I am having a discussion with a supporter of Robert
>> Brandom, who was at ISCAR, but is not an Activity Theorist. on the 
question
>> of cultural memory.
>>
>> One of my criticisms of Robert Brandom is that he does not theorise any
>> place for mediation in his theory of normativity. He supposes that 
norms are
>> transmitted and maintained down the generations by word of mouth (taken 
to
>> be an unmediated expression of subjectivity), and artefacts (whether 
texts,
>> tools, buildings, clothes, money) play no essential role in this.
>>
>> I disagree but I cannot persuade my protagonist.
>>
>> I challenged him to tell me of a (nonlierate) indigenous people who 
managed
>> to maintain their customs even after being removed from their land. My
>> protagonist responded by suggesting the Hebrews, but of course the 
Hebrews
>> had the Old Testament. Recently on xmca we had the same point come up 
and
>> baseball culture was suggested, and I responded that I didn't think
>> baseball-speak could be maintained without baseball bats, balls, 
pitches,
>> stadiums, radios, uniforms and other artefacts used in the game.
>>
>> Am I wrong? Can anyone point to a custom maintained over generations 
without
>> the use of arefacts (including land and texts as well as tools, but 
allowing
>> the spoken word)?
>>
>> Andy
>> --
>> 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1
>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
>>
>> __________________________________________
>> _____
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>
>> 
>
>
> 

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857

__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca

__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca