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Re: [xmca] Cultural memory



Thanks Arturo.
I think this thread has established that all kinds of artefacts (including the land, and the voice) play a role in maintaining normativity but no clear case can be made that voice alone is insufficient. The only way that the centrality of mediation can be established is by the results produced by analysis of artefact-mediated actions, as against the approaches which regard words and things as incidental to "intersubjective" communication.

The difficulty arose in the course of giving an account of concepts. Account of concepts (a variety of normativity) given by intersubjectivists is easily geared to childhood, a domain of activity which is entirely within the scope of interpersonal interactions using voice, gesture and body.

Mmmm
Andy

Arturo Escandon wrote:
Hi there.

I believe Polynesians qualify up to a certain point. Look at the links
between people form Tahiti, Rapa Nui and Aotearoa in terms of
normative before they were alphabetised by Western colonizers.

The problem of course is that most ancient cultures had very similar
normatives (as J. Frazer explores in The Golden Bough), at least in
terms of normative for king succession, mixing roles of king and
priest, gender roles and taboos, and so forth. The question would be
to focus on a particular area of normative where you could find
radical differences. Yet, succession normative is always accompanied
by what Bourdieu called the 'august apparel', e.g. the scepter, the
crown, feathers, bodily paint, even the use of animal skins, etc.
Taboos are linked to contaminating magic (mediated by artefacts, human
tissue, hair, etc.). So I do not see how can someone get rid of
cultural tools other than speech in the analysis of normative.

Best

Arturo



On 15 October 2011 08:54, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
I need some help. I am having a discussion with a supporter of Robert
Brandom, who was at ISCAR, but is not an Activity Theorist. on the question
of cultural memory.

One of my criticisms of Robert Brandom is that he does not theorise any
place for mediation in his theory of normativity. He supposes that norms are
transmitted and maintained down the generations by word of mouth (taken to
be an unmediated expression of subjectivity), and artefacts (whether texts,
tools, buildings, clothes, money) play no essential role in this.

I disagree but I cannot persuade my protagonist.

I challenged him to tell me of a (nonlierate) indigenous people who managed
to maintain their customs even after being removed from their land. My
protagonist responded by suggesting the Hebrews, but of course the Hebrews
had the Old Testament. Recently on xmca we had the same point come up and
baseball culture was suggested, and I responded that I didn't think
baseball-speak could be maintained without baseball bats, balls, pitches,
stadiums, radios, uniforms and other artefacts used in the game.

Am I wrong? Can anyone point to a custom maintained over generations without
the use of arefacts (including land and texts as well as tools, but allowing
the spoken word)?

Andy
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857

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--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857

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