Re: [xmca] Living metaphor and conventionalized language

["Vera John-Steiner" <vygotsky@unm.edu>]

Hi Martin,

I wonder what,who "reaches right out to reality itself." To me 
internalization implies changes in the brain as a consequence of behavior 
and equally important, anticipating future behavior. Thus, the importance of 
V's theory of planning.
As far as  "complex structure of behavior,--to  me, that means the 
simultaneousl occurance of activity in the brain together with n a more 
visible action.  Both of these are material processes.

Vera



Original Message ----- 
From: "Martin Packer" <packer@duq.edu>
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [xmca] Living metaphor and conventionalized language


Larry, David...

I don't like the word "internalization" because I can't see that anything 
internal is involved! As LSV put it:

“Consciousness does not occur as a specific category, as a specific mode of 
being. It proves to be a very complex structure of behaviour”

David Bakhurst describes well the 'radical realism' those guys were 
developing:

"Thought is conceived not as a barrier or interface between the self and the 
world beyond the mind, but as the means by which the individual enters into 
immediate cognitive contact with the material world. Thought, the mode of 
activity of the socially defined subject, reaches right out to reality 
itself" (1991, p. 261)

If the "inner" is out there in the "outer," we've got the metaphors wrong, 
IMHO.

Martin

On Aug 11, 2011, at 12:27 AM, David Kellogg wrote:

> Of course, BOTH "internalization" and "appropriation" are metaphors. I 
> don't flee from the "internalization" metaphor the way that Martin does, 
> partly because I think of it as referring not to a body but as to a 
> nation, a country, a city, a community, a family...or some particle 
> thereof. In this sense (a sense which I suppose is better captured by 
> "interiorization" than by "internalization", just as "reflection" is 
> better captured by "refraction") there is no duality; when you move from 
> one nation to another you do not change worlds, nor do you change nations 
> when you move from one city to another.

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