[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: [xmca] perception



Larry do I read you correctly, that you are advocated "binocular vision," seeing both from whole to part and from part to whole? OK, that's a point. There are indeed contexts in which a process proceeds in that way. "The absolute is also relative." But also "There is an absolute within the relative." A neuroscientific understanding of the psyche must *still* begin from the whole.

Andy

Larry Purss wrote:
Hi Andy
I want to add on to your comment It intrigues me the doggedness of the prejudice of analytical
philosophy, going back centuries and right up to the present day, that
perception and indeed the Universe itself, begins with arbitrarily small
individual chunks and composes the whole from there up, bit by bit. And
there is no basis in fact for the prejudice at all. I could cite Liberal
and bourgeois ideology, I suppose, but even then it seems difficult to
accept.
Lawrence Hass in his book about Merleau-Ponty talks about this theme when he talks about analyzing living perception through neuroscientific explanations. Hass takes the stance that analytic explanations are always derivative from the totality of lived perception. One must experience the gestalen before proceeding to analyze it. Analytic explanations are always ABOUT experience. However he makes an important point that it does not follow from this stance that 2nd order constructions are IDEAL of a MORE ORIGINAL reality. The sense-data atomistic perspective of much of science is ideal. BUT for Hass the nerves and synapses ARE REAL and modular brain FUNCTIONS are explanations of the real. Analysis can tell us about the real. However, analysis always constucts THIS particular PERSPECTIVE, as a form of discourse, [way of thinking, speaking, and working] which is always PARTIAL, always LIMITED, always BOUND to a perspective. The neurobiological perspective IS real but NOT MORE REAL than living perception. At an ontological level perception [lived experience or neurobiology]is always BOUND TO PERSPECTIVES that are always partial and partial. [This is to keep in mind our culture's bias or "prejudice" against prejudice is also bound to a particular perspective] Hass, used the metaphor of BInocular vision to elaborate this point.[Merleau-Ponty and Bateson both used this metaphor] Every monocular vision is partial and looking out of one eye gives a REAL but partial perception. Each eye gives a partial perspective on the world. Neither of these partial monocular visions can be compared with the BInocular gestalen vision that has more depth and clarity than either of the monocular visions. MEANING from either monocular vision and meaning from binocular vision are different FORMS of recognition. Merleau-Ponty's project is to explore these differences.

On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 11:53 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:

    Thanks David. Vygotsky is reporting Stern's work in the citation I
    gave,
    but refers to the method "introduced into psychology a long time
    ago" so
    he wasn't even going to give Stern credit for originality in this
    instance.
    But anyway, I can cite "unpublished work by D. Kellogg" for
    authetication. Thank you.

    It intrigues me the doggedness of the prejudice of analytical
    philosophy, going back centuries and right up to the present day, that
    perception and indeed the Universe itself, begins with arbitrarily
    small
    individual chunks and composes the whole from there up, bit by
    bit. And
    there is no basis in fact for the prejudice at all. I could cite
    Liberal
    and bourgeois ideology, I suppose, but even then it seems difficult to
    accept.

    Andy

    David Kellogg wrote:

        Yes, Andy. The experiment was actually Stern's. One of my
        students and I replicated this experiment with a video clip
        and got even more spectacular results. We submitted this as
        our contribution to the MCA special issue on foreign language
        learning. Naturally, it was rejected, and we were told in no
        uncertain terms not to resubmit!
         David Kellogg
        Seoul National University of Education

        --- On *Thu, 6/23/11, Andy Blunden /<ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>/* wrote:


           From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
           Subject: [xmca] perception
           To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
           Date: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 10:41 PM

           Vygotsky reports on several occasions (eg LSV CW v. 5 pp
        86-87) on
           an experiment in which children are shown a painting and then
           asked to describe it, but then in a variation on the
        experiment,
           are asked to act out what they see in the painting. Version 1
           tests the child's ability bring their perception into conscious
           awareness and then translate it into words and deliver a
        series of
           words one after the other, in answer to a question from a
        stranger
           and version 2 tests their perception of the painting more
        or less
           viscerally.

           Can anyone tell me if these results still sand or have
        there been
           more recent experiments perhaps producing some different
        result?

           Andy


           --
------------------------------------------------------------------------
           *Andy Blunden*
           Joint Editor MCA:
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=g932564744
        <http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title%7Edb=all%7Econtent=g932564744>
<http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title%7Edb=all%7Econtent=g932564744>
           Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
        <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>

           Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
        <http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
           <http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
        <http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>>
           MIA: http://www.marxists.org <http://www.marxists.org/>
        <http://www.marxists.org/>


           __________________________________________
           _____
           xmca mailing list
           xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
<http://us.mc1103.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>


           http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca


-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    *Andy Blunden*
    Joint Editor MCA:
    http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=g932564744
    <http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title%7Edb=all%7Econtent=g932564744>
    Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
    Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
    <http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
    MIA: http://www.marxists.org <http://www.marxists.org/>


    __________________________________________
    _____
    xmca mailing list
    xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca



--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Joint Editor MCA: http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=g932564744
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
MIA: http://www.marxists.org

__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca