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Re: [xmca] Six key points on sociocultural models of development

Gregory, thanks for this reference on the topic of desire for recognition.

My question to Martin was my attempt to understand our fundamental need for
recognition, [self/other], and how this fundamental need is transformed by
cultural-historical institutional arrangements.  As I read Martin's article
he located the need for recognition as one of the  6 foundational
[ontological?] GROUNDS of the sociocultural perspective.
If the desire for recognition is foundational , then the
dialogical understanding of communication as the relation BETWEEN self and
other is primary [not the dialectical resolution of tensions into a new
cognitive synthesis which may be derivative from a more
primary intersubjective relational foundation]  I'm wondering, reading
scholars such as Merleau-Ponty, if mediation of dialogical relational
intersubjectivity, is prior to mediation by material artifacts.

This question is probably expressing my ignorance of the relation between
the notions of tool use and intersubjectivity but how else to get clarity?

In actual practice it may be impossible to separate these two mediational
means BUT it seems that the dialogical perspective emphasizes the mediation
of self/other intersubjective relational being/becoming while mediation via
tool use emphasizes internalization and cognitive synthesis through
cultural-historical object usage.

The notion of biosocial niches can accomodate both mediation through other
persons AND mediation through artifacts, so really it is not an either/or
question but rather a matter of emphasis.  The practical question in school
settings is how to be aware of the profound desire for recognition of all
the persons [students and teachers] which teachers may loose sight of in the
focus on developing and internalizing scientific concepts. [which comes at a
cost of transmuted desire for recognition]

The focus on the intersubjective relational "betweenness" of the dialogical
perspective seems to emphasize the "desre for recognition"  more than the
language of mediated tool use.

Hesitant to press "send" as I expose my ignorance


On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Gregory Allan Thompson <
gathomps@uchicago.edu> wrote:

> Larry,
> Merleau-Ponty is certainly a good direction to go with desire and
> recognition.
> For writings on desire and recognition in the more sociological tradition,
> you might want to check out W.I. Thomas' The Unadjusted Girl. Section 4 of
> Chapter 1 (p. 31). Check it out at:
> http://www.brocku.ca/MeadProject/Thomas/Thomas_1923/Thomas_1923_1.html
> Best,
> -greg
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 07:30:16 -0700
> From: Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> Subject: [xmca] Six key points on sociocultural models of development
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTimb+b7VV14eCr75T-eZj+sOwhst-g@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Hi Martin, Mike,
> Mike, thanks for the Sinha article on language as a biological niche and
> social institution.  I'm working my way through the article.
> The concept of affordances within niches draws attention to species
> specific
> forms of meaning AS ......  Gibson on p. 8 of Sinha's article says
> affordances are DIRECTLY PERCEIVED as it potentiates the activation of
> perception-action circuits which form objects as directly perceived PARTS
> of
> gestalen [meaningful wholes] or niches.
> Martin, I now want to bring in one of the key themes of the six you outline
> in your article [I would recommend others read the article Martin posted on
> the ontology of the sociocultural turn]  This is the theme of "desire &
> recognition"  You suggest that the first 3 themes are familiar to scholars
> working within the sociocultural framework but the last 3 themes are more
> outside their horizon of understanding.  Andy recently mentioned engaging
> CHAT with Critical theory around the specific topic of recognition.
> I'm wondering how central you see the theme of "desire &recognition" as
> being to our fundamental human nature that must be theorized within all
> models of development.  Your article points to the COSTS of schooling as
> "students" acquire the dispositions to slice the world into parts as
> "analysis" comes to colonize how modernity incorporates lived direct
> experience into cognitive formations that are DERIVATIVE.  You also mention
> that most of "us" on this listserve accept the costs as the price of
> admission into our communities of practice.  We have developed skill and
> facility with dicing and slicing and living within derivative cognitive
> spaces as "students", "professors", "therapists", and other successful
> members of  educationally oriented institutions.
> I also wonder how Luria and Vygotsky viewed "desire & recognition" as Luria
> was interested in psychoanalysis.
> Martin, you mentioned six key themes grounding sociocultural models and
> this
> framework seems to hold promise for teasing out the dialectic between the
> first 3 themes [widely shared within sociocultural oriented communities]
> and
> the last 3 themes [recognition, being fundamentally split, & resulting
> search for identity]
> Going back to my fist paragraph, how is "desire & recognition"
> conceptualized as emerging and developing within biocultural niches within
> Vygotsky, Luria, and others??  With Andy, I sense this is a central topic
> for helping us understand how we OUGHT to proceed.
> Larry
> PS  Mike,  I believe Merleau-Ponty may have something to add on "desire &
> recognition" when we discuss his ideas on phenomenology as a form of
> reflection that does not slice and dice in analysis. [analysis as one
> powerful and legitimate FORM of consciousness BUT with costs]
> Can authors such as Merleau-Ponty help pay more attention to the
> inevitable cost to become members of our communities of participation and
> to
> the cost of our institutional formations.  The Felder article in the latest
> issue of "Theory & Psychology" was well written as Felder attempts to
> ground
> the practice of psychotherapy  in Merleau-Ponty's theoretical perspective.
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