Re: [xmca] Shared knowledge as Common Ground

[Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>]

Hi Mike
I would be very interested in reading Herb Clark's article.
Your question  about parallel universes is a topic that I find interesting
and have often wondered about. A general answer would be that it is a
process of HISTORICIZED development and ontogenetic development of knowledge
partakes of "common  ground"
 Andy's comment on Hegel mixed with Marx with a twist of pragmatism captures
something of a shared "grounding"

On this note of understanding the DURABLE FORMS of common ground, I was
wondering if CHAT has ever discussed the ideas of Kazimierz Twardowski??  An
article by Jerzy Bobryk titled "The Social Construction of Mind and the
Future of Cognitive Science" explores the trajectory of cognitive science as
a science of the EXTENDED and socially constructed mind.  Kazimierz
 Twardowski's "theory of Intentionality" and his theory of "actions and
products" provide the conceptual framework for Jerzy Bobryk's analysis.  The
article is in the journal FOUNDATIONS OF SCIENCE,  2002, volume 7,  481-495.

In 1894 Kazimierz Twardowski when reflecting on "intentionality" noticed
that mental states could be directed at IDEAL or NONEXISTING OBJECTS that
could be an object of my intentional states.  Twardowski points out that
"object" was used in two senses. 1) for the independently existing entity to
which our mental actions are DIRECTED. 2) for the MENTAL PRODUCT OF THIS
ACTION, presentation, or psychological REPRESENTATION of the mentioned
entity. This 2nd sense focused on the IMAGINATION of the object that comes
into existence and cannot exist independently of my mental action.

In 1912 Twardowski explored the relationship between physical and
psychological actions and PRODUCTS.  In pairs such as : "TO jump- THE
jump",  "TO walk-THE walk",  "To perceive-THE perception",  "TO imagine-THE
image",  the first word denotes an action, the second a PRODUCT of this
action. This is a difference of MEANING as both words have different
DENOTATION.

Some PRODUCTS are inseparable from action: a dance exists as long as the
action of dancing that PRODUCES the dance continues, a thought exists as
long as someone is thinking.

Other actions yield PRODUCTS that can EXIST LONGER than the actions which
produce them.  They are  DURABLE PRODUCTS.  [We build buildings.]  These
durable products change or affect the objects that existed prior to the
particular action that produced the durable product. These objects that are
changed are called the MATERIAL OF ACTION and the action transforms the
material in producing the durable product.

According to Twardowski's theory, 3 ontological categories of actions &
products can be distinguished.
1) PHYSICAL actions & products [walking - a walk]
2) PSYCHOLOGICAL actions & products [thinking - a thought]
3) PSYCHOPHYSICAL actions & products [speaking - a speech,  painting - a
picture] In this category there is a physical action accompanied by a
psychological action and DURABLE psychophysical products result.  At the
moment when a psychophysical action occurs, both the MENTAL product and the
PSYCHOPHYSICAL product EXIST SIMULTANEOUSLY.  The psychophysical products
[such as signs] become the EXTERNAL EXPRESSIONS of the non-durable mental
products. These DURABLE products or signs potentially CONTAIN A MEANING ( a
mental content) that may partially CAUSE a similar mental product to appear
in the receivers of the durable product.  For example a painting evokes a
mental product in the person viewing a drawing.  The sybol, sign, or product
is SEPARATED from the act that produced it. This DURABLE product in many
cases produces another cognitive act which evokes a mental or psychological
meaning. This new mental product is NOT IDENTICAL to the durable product
that evoked the mental product. therefore each person will not have an
identical mental product evoked. However the various mental products
produced by the durable product reveal certain COMMON characteristics.
These are elements that the individual mental products SHARE and are
considered to be the MEANING OF a given durable psychophysical product.
Therefore we may say that a given sign evokes multiple similar [but not
identical]  thoughts in various persons.

Meaning, from Twardowski's perspective, is no longer a specific mental
product, but something we attain by the operation of ABSTRACTION performed
on a given durable product.  Twardowski called the particular product of
psychological mental action "meaning IN CONCRETO"  Whereas meaning
understood as COMMON and DURABLE, which individual psychological mental
products SHARE is termed "meaning IN ABSTRACTO". The person is influenced by
the durable products and base her/his judgements and reasoning on these
normative durable products, received from the exterior, in developing
psychological products. In this process of psychological products being
transformed to durable products, thinking individuals may USE products of
psychological actions INDEPENDENTLY of the psychological actions themselves.
In other words the durable products not only enable communication but also
transform the person's thinking and STANDARDIZES [structures?] intellectual
operations.  The durable products become OBJECTS.   These durable products
can also be RECORDED by various media [recording systems] which transform
psychological products [meanings]

There is nothing new in Twardowski's theory of actions and products from a
CHAT perspective. However, his use of the term "products" predates the term
"objects" and speaks to the search for COMMON GROUND.  When Mike mentions
reflects on parallel universes, it triggers further reflection on HISTORICED
development.  It's fascinating that Twardowski was writing his thoughts in
1894.

Larry




On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 5:19 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:

> Lucas-- I was able to grab the Herb Clark article. Concerned as it is with
> joint, mediated, activity and the material/ideal nature of mediation, it
> has
> to be close to my heart.
> If others are interested, i can send a pdf.
>
> The issue of "grounding" also comes up in wertsch's writings on the
> given/new distinction, i think when he
> discusses Rommetveit. Very worthwhile discussion and expansion as a topic.
>
> I would also note that the entire issue of Discourse Studies should be
> interesting people in this
> discussion, from the introduction of x-lchc-ite Sandro Duranti to the
> discussion around Manny Schegeloff's work (another x-lchc-ite from
> loooooong
> ago).
>
> Like old home week! thanks.
>
> mike
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:25 AM, Lucas Bietti <lucas@bietti.org> wrote:
>
> >
> > Just a quick clarification. H.Clark's book is titled 'Using Language'.
> > Interestingly, in the last years Clark and Nick Enfield have been using
> the
> > concept of Common Ground in multimodal interactions incorporating
> material
> > environments.
> >
> >
> > Clark, H. (2005). Coordinating each other in a material world. Discourse
> > Studies7 (4-5), 507-525.
> > Enfield, N.J. (2006). Social consequences of common ground. In N.J.
> Enfield
> > &
> > S.C. Levinson (eds.), Roots of human sociality: Culture, cognition and
> > interaction(pp.399-430). Oxford: Berg.
> > Enfield, N.J. (2008). Common ground as a resource for social affiliation.
> > In
> > I.Kecskes & J.L. (eds), Intention, common ground and the egocentric
> > speaker-hearer(pp.223-254). Berlin: Mouton de Gruyter.
> > Enfield,N.J.(2009). The anatomy of meaning: Speech, gesture, and
> composite
> > utterances. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
> >
> >
> > Hope this helps
> > Lucas
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On October 21, 2010 at 10:32 PM Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I just read an interesting article on shared knowledge acquisition
> > > and shared perception that develops as doctors participate in  joint
> > > activity within the operating room.
> > > When reading it I was thinking of Jay Lemke's article on how changing
> > > media facilitate different forms of shared knowlege.
> > >
> > > The article is an examination of communicative activity in an operating
> > room
> > > where there is an attendant, a resident, and a third year medical
> student
> > > and how they are developing shared perceptions and shared knowledge
> > within
> > > a particular situation.  The authors are usin a pragmatic model of
> > > "reference repair" proposed by  Clark and Marshall [1981]
> > >
> > > Clark's model in 1981 was referring to "mutual knowledge" but in 1996
> in
> > a
> > > book titled "Using Knowledge" he expanded the notion of mutual
> knowledge
> > to
> > > a broader category of "common ground"
> > >
> > > Clark's proposed model of reference repair is expressed by the formula
> > > Evidence + Asumptions + Induction schema = Mutual knowledge [or common
> > > ground]
> > > g
> > > Evidence is the ground that both speaker and hearer both understand
> some
> > > matter in the same way.
> > >
> > > Assumptions are the things taken for granted when accepting these
> grounds
> > as
> > > warrants
> > >
> > > Inductive schema is a RECURSIVE relation where evidence and assumptions
> > are
> > > interrelated or linked.  Weaker bases of evidence [shared knowledge]
> must
> > be
> > > compensated by increasing levels of assumptions.
> > >
> > > The authors in the discussion section of there article wrote
> > >
> > > "We are in full accord with Clark's shift from a treatment of reference
> > as a
> > > simple matter of linquistic interpretation to a more situated model
> that
> > > encpmpasses "joint actions" and "joint perceptual experiences" and we
> > think
> > > this this [theory] ... would help to illuminate how participants' own
> > > unfolding activities contribute to the determinant sense of what IS
> > SEEABLE
> > > at any given moment. Furthermore, we have much to learn about the
> > > interactions between different kinds of bases of shared understanding".
> > >
> > > Not sure if others will find the article interesting.  It is another
> > > perspective on the theme of "co-ordinating perspectives"  through
> > > "reflective capacity" as a "socio-relational" process.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > __________________________________________
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