Re: [xmca] Vygotsky vs. Bakhtin (or, The Interpersonal Is Not the Sociocultural Redux)

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Ana--

I am one of those who believe in useful overlaps and complementarities
between LSV and MMB.
LSV (1987, p. 285):

If language is as ancient as consciousness itself, if language is
consciousness that exists in practice for other people and therefore for
myself, then it is not only the development of thought but the development
of consciousness as a whole that is connected with the word.... in
consciousness the word is what, in Feuerbach's words--is absolutely
impossible for one person but possible for two.

Today in lab we were talking about the centrality of MMB's notions of
carnival in the way we design..... ugh, collective zones of proximal
development.

like that.

seems like authentic potential to me, although I readily admit that one
could set the two scholars up as mortal enemies if they wished.... humans
are so clever!

mike

On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Ana Balboa-Guenthner <
anaguenthner@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Andy,
>
> Authenticity to me- each ones truth.
>
> hmm, Vygotskian context...if I were to think of "sense and meaning"
> perhaps?
> If ones truth is in the midst of internalization, and there exists several
> layers of truth depending on the social context of the moment, why can't
> inner speech be dialogic? But Vygotsky has inner speech as monologic. Is it
> possible that the relationships between subcultures within self be
> considered the "others" , and if so, one's utterance will depend on its
> relationship with the "other" and "others"? Would that be the hidden
> dialogicity, mentioned by Bakhtin?
>
> In the case of students/teachers/parents/community leaders in this
> non-western culture, historically, and stlll in practice, believe that
> asking questions is disrespectful to others (external). They will verbally
> share what they assume the "other"(external) wants to hear. So, how does
> one
> "listen" if dialogue with an external other may only "seem" truthful?
>
> @Mike, Thanks for the links. I will use CHAT. However, my thoughts seem to
> think of Bakhtin too. Yes, I am aware of the works of Kris, Yrgo, yours and
> others. Barbara Rogoff's work with the indigenous people too. Actually,
> news
> of Eugene and a design methodology is one that I will explore next...hmm,
> as
> well as his thoughts on Bakhtin.    ~Ana BG
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 3:44 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>
> > What do you mean by "Authenticity", Ana? I don't ever recall this term
> > arising in a Vygotkyan context. Mostly I would expect to see this come up
> in
> > Existential and related currents of thought. What does it mean to you?
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
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