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Re: [xmca] perception/conception etc
> . Why would you assume we have the same concept of music?
>
> Martin
>
>
Would communication and shared reference have anything to do with it? What does "same" mean in this context, Martin?
Jorge
>
> On Jul 9, 2010, at 12:22 PM, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
>
>> Martin:
>>
>> I agree that increasing the vernacular does not increase understanding.
>>
>> Yet still my perception of music differs from others but yet my concept
>> does not, would you agree with that?
>>
>> Try listening to Lou Reed's" Machine Metal Music" and tell me what you
>> think.
>>
>> eric
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Martin Packer <packer@duq.edu>
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> Date: 07/09/2010 11:46 AM
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] perception/conception etc
>> Sent by: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
>>
>>
>>
>> Eric,
>>
>> For me, the question that needs to be answered is why we need to introduce
>> a new term, "percept." We can all talk about 'perception,' as an active
>> process of interaction with the world, right? What is gained when we start
>> to talk about 'percepts,' as though there are some little entities
>> floating around somewhere? Haven't we turned a process into an entity?
>>
>> The university has a good selection of DVDs, and I recently checked out
>> the first season of the cable TV channel Showtime's series The Tudors,
>> which recounts how Henry VIII's need for a male heir led to the rupture
>> between England and the Catholic Church. It's not exactly aiming for
>> historical accuracy, but I was then motivated to check out Elton's history
>> of the period and it turns out the series does a pretty good job of
>> touching on most of the important events.
>>
>> Everyone in the show is a fashion statement, including Cardinal Wolsey
>> who, as played by Sam Neil, is both cunning and likable. He shows up each
>> time in a different outfit, wearing a variety of official headgear, each
>> in that rich cardinal red.
>>
>> One morning I was fixing breakfast and reached out for the salt shaker.
>> It's made of transparent plastic with a lid, something we picked up at the
>> supermarket. But the lid is bright red, and (and here's the point; thanks
>> for your patience!) as I picked it up, for a second or two what I saw was
>> a little cardinal.
>>
>> That seems to me a nice example of what Mike has been exploring, the
>> active and ongoing character of perception, in which conceiving and
>> perceiving are intimately linked. I see the object *through* and *in
>> terms* of a concept (though we're still none to sure what that is!), in
>> this case the concept of cardinal that had been enriched by watching the
>> TV show. The process is not entirely within me as an individual, because
>> the salt shaker did its part.
>>
>> To me, saying that I "have" a "percept" doesn't help me understand this
>> process. The percept would be - what, a little red cardinal? or is the
>> percept the salt shaker, and I impose a concept of cardinal on it? but
>> isn't 'salt shaker' a concept too?? Putting all of this stuff inside the
>> individual leads to an infinite regress, not a satisfactory explanation
>> (or even description) of what is going on.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> On Jul 9, 2010, at 10:43 AM, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
>>
>>> Percept would be preference? I don't know exactly but people do not
>>> operate upon appropriated concepts 100% of the time. Do they? Certainly
>>
>>> children do not. Currently I am not exactly sure what the question is
>>> that needs to be answered.
>>>
>>> Perhaps the percept in the 'not-wanting-to-listen-to-dylan" for me would
>>
>>> be I would prefer listening to the radio seeing as he never gets any air
>>
>>> time or perhaps it would be that I am stuck inside of mobile with the
>>> memphis blues again?
>>>
>>> That certainly is a great question. Others with
>>> thoughts/percepts/concepts?
>>>
>>> eric
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Martin Packer <packer@duq.edu>
>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>> Date: 07/09/2010 09:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] perception/conception etc
>>> Sent by: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> OK, Eric let's suppose you woke up this morning not wanting to listen to
>>
>>> Dylan. What is the percept in that situation? Dylan? His music? Your
>>> temporary dislike? The fact that yesterday you felt differently?
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> On Jul 9, 2010, at 8:04 AM, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
>>>
>>>> Martin:
>>>>
>>>> I understand your misgivings about placing construction within but
>>> perhaps
>>>> this makes sense: concepts are appropriated from the social/cultural
>>>> arena but percepts are individually based. My percepts about music may
>>
>>>> run counter to yours and there are even days I don't want to listen to
>>> Bob
>>>> Dylan. However, I have an appropriated concept of music that is
>>> probably
>>>> extremely similar to yours. Does this make sense? I know this
>>>> internal/exteranl debate has raged for years and won't end anytime soon
>>
>>>> but some things do indeed happen within. I still have to think though
>>>> that cracking this code between everyday and scietific could assist in
>>>> understanding human development.
>>>>
>>>> eric
>>>>
>>>
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