[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
RE: [xmca] "Tool and sign" - translation questions...
Thank you Elina,But this is curious, because the functional systemaction-language-perception as unity, is at the same timean "object of analisys", don't you agree? Best.
> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 11:01:07 -0400
> Subject: Re: [xmca] "Tool and sign" - translation questions...
> From: ellampert@gmail.com
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> Hi, Achills,
> I am in a rush to get into the airport, so please forgive me for a quick
> analysis.The first sentence is fine in both translations. But I agree with
> you, Readers' version is more adequate in the second sentence. "Genuine and
> the most important..." would be closer to the original from my point of
> view. I think this is important in understanding of Vygotsky's concept of
> the unit of analysis of specifically human forms of behavior. "Real,
> reality" are very rare words in Vygotsky's writing.
>
> Elina
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 5:49 AM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi, XMCA
> >
> > Changing subject.
> >
> > I had noted that we have (at least) two versions from this book "Tool and
> > sign" (Luria and Vygotsky, 1930[?]), in English... In this simple quote
> > bellow I can see something not so irrelevant very different, see please:
> >
> >
> > I - IN THE "VYGOTSKY READER"'S VERSION:
> >
> > “These observations lead us to the conclusion
> > that the child solves a practical task with the help of not only eyes and
> > hands, but also speech. This newly born unity of perception, speech and
> > action,
> > which leads to the inculcation of the laws of the visual field, constitutes
> > the REAL and VITAL *object of analysis* aimed at studing the origin
> > of specifically human forms of behavior” (I had a notice that this version
> > was passed from Luria for Michael Cole in past, is this information correct,
> > Mike? - then I don't know who was the translator... maybe Luria himself?)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > II - IN THE "COLLECTED WORKS" (VOLUME 6) - version:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > “These observations bring us to the conclusion
> > that the child solves a practical problem not only with his eyes and hands,
> > but
> > also with the help of speech. The unity of perception that has developed,
> > of
> > speech and action, which leads to a re-organization of the signs of the
> > visual
> > field, also makes up a SUBORDINATE and very IMPORTANT *object
> > of analysis* directed toward the study of the origin of specifically
> > human forms of behavior." (p.
> > 15 – translated from Russian by Marie J. Hall)
> >
> >
> > III - IN THE RUSSIAN VERSION (VOLUME 6):
> >
> > "Эти наблюдения наталкивают нас на вывод, что ребенок решает практическую
> > задачу не только с помощью глаз и рук, но' и с помощью речи. Возникшее
> > единство восприятия, речи и действия, которое приводит к перестройке законов
> > зрительного поля, и составляет ПОДЛИННЫЙ и ВАЖНЕЙШИЙ *объект анализа*,
> > направленного на изучение происхождения специфически человеческих форм
> > поведения."
> >
> >
> >
> > ***************************************
> >
> > Well, its ok - (A) ПОДЛИННЫЙ 1.
> > (не
> > поддельный)
> > authentic; genuine; (на копия) original 2. (истинный) true, real; and
> > (B) 2) ВАЖНЕЙШИЙ 1.
> > превосх. ст. см. важный 1 2.
> > (главный) major, paramount важнейшая проблема —
> > major problem... It seems that the Readers' version is more adequate, is
> > not it? Even so I have a doubt about the sources... This Russian version is
> > not translated from the English version supposed given for Cole by Luria, is
> > it? (for instance, because the original manuscripts were lost, or something
> > like this?). Somebody can tell me, in addition, if the English version of
> > the Reader was wrote/provided by Luria himself? Vygotsky and Vygotsky wrote
> > originally in Russian, or in English for international publication trying???
> >
> > This things are so clear. Spite the more important is to know that "newly
> > born unity" is an important "object of analysis" and not exactly a
> > "subordinate an very important"... (its ok). But to know something about
> > translations is useful because the two English versions are not so
> > congruent. If this newly born unity was subordinate, what was
> > supra-ordinate?
> >
> >
> > Thank you, very much.
> >
> > Achills.
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > QUER ANEXAR VÁRIAS FOTOS NUM EMAIL? PREPARE-SE PARA O NOVO HOTMAIL. CLIQUE
> > AQUI.
> >
> > http://www.windowslive.com.br/public/product.aspx/view/1?ocid=Hotmail:Live:Hotmail:Tagline:senDimensao:QUERANEXAR80:-
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> I have on my table a violin string. It is free. I twist one end of it and it
> responds. It is free. But it's not free to do what a violin string is
> supposed to do - to produce music. So I take it, fix it in my violin and
> tighten it until it is taut. Only then is it free to be a violin string.
> -Sir Rabindranath Tagore
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
_________________________________________________________________
CONVERSE COM SEUS AMIGOS E OS VEJA PELA WEBCAM NO MESSENGER. CLIQUE AQUI E VEJA COMO.
http://www.windowslive.com.br/public/tip.aspx/view/84?product=2&ocid=WLCRM:Live:Hotmail:Tagline:senDimensao:CONVERSECO85:-
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca