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Re: [xmca] The Non-modular Mind

Hi Mike
One more quick question on using gmail.
I'm responding to your email and I don't know if only your last message plus
my response is getting sent to CHAT or if all the previous threads starting
with David's email 24 hours ago also are trailing behind.  I'm trying to be
conscious of  not clogging up the listserve archives with redundant emails.?

You asked the question about our response to having read the Mandelshtam
post.  My personal reaction was to be fascinated with the
narrative structure and imaginative interpretative depth of historical
understanding required when "translating".  As I read the article I was
reminded of  the power of historical CONTEXT and Martin's reminder that
every time we encounter a text something NEW EMERGES.  The translation, from
a hermeneutical framework,  was adding layers of CONTEXT [especially
historical traditions] to the reflective process of translation.
Translation is more than a process of "uncovering" or "discovery".  It is
also a collaboration between the text [and its historical context], the
translator [and his/her historical context], and the reader [and the
reader's historical context].
Reading the article I was immersed in the emergence of a deeper appreciation
of how we are  historically implicated.  It was a wonderful piece of

That leads to the question of how profoundly we are CONSTITUTED by
TRADITIONS [as discussed in hermeneutical accounts].  Kirschner's and Jack
Martin's edited volume point out this is one of the major debates in
sociocultural theory. Some accounts emphasize dynamic emergence and others
emphasize how we are implicated and constituted [and constrained] by
historical traditions.  In their introduction to their book [excerpted at
google books] they point out the various sociocultural accounts take
different positions on this emergence/tradition conversation.
How I view this tension makes a difference in how I position my self in
school settings.  I personally take the view that the more I can reflect on
how determined and constituted I am by traditions, the more I can take a
perspective on these real constraints and in the process of becoming more
reflective I actually become more agentive in my capacity to be somewhat
more self-determined and free to imagine alternative futures.  It is this
developing capacity to be reflective on how we are constituted within
sociocultural traditions that creates an opening to be other than I am


On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 9:34 AM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:

> Combining Mead and Vygotsky makes a lot of sense, Larry. See the Edwards
> article in Cambridge Companion to LSV. (I have got the Reddy and Stern
> books
> now-- I would love to see a discussion of the very opening of Stern and of
> course we all are interested in the early infancy/sociality issue). I also
> REALLY would like to see a discussion of the Zinchenko article on Word and
> Meaning in the Companion. Lots of key issues raised there.
> David-- I wanted to call *Cultural Psychology*, "culture in mind" but
> Brad's book came out about two months before CP went to press and the
> marketer at Harvard called me on the phone and told me, on the spot, to
> come
> up with a new title. So I took an old title with a question mark at the
> end,
> put a period in its place, and the rest is the rest. I have not really
> interacted with him around the substance of his ideas.
> I do not think I have gotten a copy of the Kirschner and Martin edited
> volume, Larry. But maybe I have and it is on the periously high stack of
> must reads. My problem is that i feel a strong compulsion to re-re-read ch6
> of T&S right now and contibute to Andy's electronic symposium project. And
> I
> spent last evening with Zinchenko, thinking (actually, truth be old, Zinky
> had to share time with Moll Flanders -- now there is an interesting
> couple!).
> Did anyone get that article about translating Mandelshtam? I thought it
> worth discussion but maybe that because I have spent so much time with
> Fernando Rey struggling to find a way to navigate Russian-Spanish-English
> quotations in a way that did not bog the reader down in all the
> complexities, which would detract attention from the point he is trying to
> make. Still, Mandelshtam is a major inspiration for LSV and Zinchenko, and
> the multi-lingual travails of translation.
> mike
> PS-- I will add the Zinchenko article to the list of "to scans" although
> the
> entire Companion turned out to have several interesting articles in it.
> On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 7:15 AM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Andy
> > Your little shift with the term "My only objection" is what I've learned
> > ......
> >
> > is actually the core issue of evaluating the "common good" or "common
> > dread"
> > of this powerful tool.
> >
> > I also struggle between the power of the internet as a forum of EMERGING
> > DYNAMIC IMAGINARIES  [emerging traditions]  that challenge any
> > presuppositions I have [what I at the moment take to be "normal"] and the
> > power of a book to consolidate and anchor these emerging ideas.  My hunch
> > is
> > that the emerging "tradition" of CONSTITUTIVE sociocultural psychology is
> > partially emerging as a developmental consequence of the internet [which
> I
> > believe has the power to radically change our notions of "education" and
> > "psychology" and also has the power to develop new psychological accounts
> > and new KINDS OF PERSONS]
> >
> > Michael mentioned he is trying to get a PDF of the Sluencko and Hengl
> > article from the "handbook of  Sociocultural Psychology"
> > In the spirit in which that book was written, I want to recommend a new
> > book
> > which I believe will draw us away from the internet to consolidate these
> > emerging ideas. The book "The Sociocultural Turn in Psychology" by
> > KIRSCHNER and JACK MARTIN" seems to bring together in one volume most of
> > the
> > various theories in the new CONSTITUTIVE sociocultural psychology.
> > If you go to goggle books and read the EXCERPT of the book published on
> > line
> > it gives an excellent summary of the last two decades of work in this
> > tradition.
> > The book suggests their are 4 theoretical accounts that are
> interconnecting
> > in this developing tradition.
> >
> > 1]  Discursive and social constructionism
> > 2]  Hermeneutic realism
> > 3]  Dialogical
> > 4] neo-Vygotskian CHAT
> >
> > Its interesting that they discussed social relational psychoanalysis as a
> > tradition within this tradition but left it out of this book because this
> > account is being developed outside of university settings.
> >
> > Michael Cole has a chapter in this book as a representative of the 4th
> > tradition.
> >
> > A brief comment on JACK MARTIN, one of the editors of this volume.  He
> has
> > recently co-published an article with Alex Gillespie and both these
> authors
> > are ELABORATING a NEO-MEADIAN account of development that I personally
> > believe is a coherent account of how "agency" and "self" emerge through
> > levels of social participation {MEAD'S SOCIAL ACTS}.  I have not seen
> > Mead's
> > CONSTITUTIVE SOCIAL RELATIONAL account of development throughout the
> > lifespan [as articulated by Jack Martin and Alex Gillespie} discussed on
> > CHAT. Having their chapter in this book will bring this particular
> > developmental account into wider discussion within the developmental
> > community. It is written withiin a historiogenetic as well as ontogenetic
> > account.
> >
> > The book that Jack Martin and Suzanne Kirschner have written seems to
> have
> > promise to make more coherent the various themes and threads that are
> > currently developing a taprestry called "constitutive sociocultural
> > psychology"
> >
> > I'm curious how others view these competing notions of development and
> what
> > are common themes and where they need further analysis. I was excited to
> > learn about this book as I see the many ideas that often keep me up
> nights,
> > collected in one anthology.
> >
> > Have any of you already got a copy of the book?
> > Both the authors have previously been the president of the "Theory and
> > Philosophy" section of the APA so have the recognition of their peers.
> >
> > I'm hoping to track down this book and try to remember how to read for
> > hours
> > at a time or is my mind now an "internet mind?"
> > As a personal evaluation, this format leads be to books such as Jack
> > Martin's which I would be ignorant of without this tool.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 3:19 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Enjoyed the "Google is rotting your brain" article. There is no doubt
> > that
> > > I suffer from this syndrome. The only way I can get through a decent
> book
> > > nowadays is by taking myself right away from the screen. And I then
> miss
> > it.
> > > My only objection would be that if it weren't for everything that I've
> > > learnt via the internet (like with xmca) then I wouldn't be able to, or
> > even
> > > want to, read these good books in any case.
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > >
> > > mike cole wrote:
> > >
> > >> I heard the book written about below discussed on NPR earlier this
> week,
> > >> and
> > >> your note induced me to dig out and send along. Seems relevant to your
> > >> comments.
> > >> mike
> > >>
> > >> http://www.salon.com/books/laura_miller/2010/05/09/the_shallows
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >  _______________________________________________
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> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
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> >
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