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RE: [xmca] Mandelshtam translation as intellectual tool

Dear colleague--


I found the translation of the following fragment by Mandelshtam (thanks, Achilles) in English inaccurate. Here is my attempt (sorry for possible grammatical errors):


"The most convenient and correct [way of analysis] is to consider the word as an image; that is as a verbal representation. In this way [approach], the question of the form and the content becomes irrelevant:  when the form is viewed as phonetics and the rest as the content. Similarly, the question of what is more primary -- the word's signification or its sounding nature -- becomes irrelevant. The verbal representation is a complex set of phenomena, a connection, a "system". It is possible to consider [view] the word's signification as a candle, lighting [burning] from inside of a paper lantern; and in reverse, the sound representation, or a so-called phoneme, can be placed inside of the [word's] signification, like the very same candle inside the very same [paper] lantern."


PS The Russian word "гореть" has at least two meaning to burn and to light (and even to shine). I think Mandelshtam might use both meanings in his poetic image.

PPS Mandelshtam did not talk about "scientific sense".


Here is my interpretative visualization of Mandelshtam’s metaphor in the last sentence (you have to be in HTML format to see my picture):


 <http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00NMAaiZkyiDoJM/Rice-Paper-Lantern.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/xm-jiasheng/product-detailNMZJiXkypzWO/China-Rice-Paper-Lantern.html&usg=__uox7YFEbUuJOZa8vd--W7WYdrd0=&h=285&w=380&sz=25&hl=en&start=26&tbnid=3YwxnSDffoKzTM:&tbnh=92&tbnw=123&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpaper%2Blantern%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20> http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:3YwxnSDffoKzTM:http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00NMAaiZkyiDoJM/Rice-Paper-Lantern.jpg                         <http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://z.about.com/d/drawsketch/1/0/U/K/candle.jpg&imgrefurl=http://drawsketch.about.com/od/advancedtipstricks/ss/drawingflame_5.htm&usg=__JZyQtKzFjNr9endGorpTvZE6vkg=&h=500&w=350&sz=69&hl=en&start=12&tbnid=dF27KCMReSSUQM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=91&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcandle%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG> http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:dF27KCMReSSUQM:http://z.about.com/d/drawsketch/1/0/U/K/candle.jpg

The word’s signification                The sound representation [phoneme]

Значимость слова                        Звуковое представление [фонема]


What do you think?



> -----Original Message-----

> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]

> On Behalf Of Achilles Delari Junior

> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:29 AM

> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity

> Subject: RE: [xmca] Mandelshtam translation as intellectual tool



>  “It is most convenient and in the scientific sense most accurate to

> regard the word as an image; that is, a verbal representation. In this

> way, the question of form and content is removed; assuming the

> phonetics are the form, everything else is the content. The problem of

> what is of primary significance, the word or its sonic properties, is

> also removed. Verbal representation is an intricate complex of

> phenomena, a connection, a “system”. The signifying aspect of the word

> can be regarded as a candle burning from inside a paper lantern; the

> sonic representation, the so-called phonemes, can be placed inside the

> signifying aspect, like the very same candle in the same lantern.” (p.

> 77)


> Mandelshtam, O.E. (1977) Austin: University of Texas Press. Selected

> Essays.

> (Translated by Sidney Monas.)


> I guess this one:


> "Самое удобное и правильное — рассматривать слово как образ, то есть

> словесное представление. Этим путем устраняется вопрос о форме и

> содержании, буде фонетика — форма, все остальное — содержание.

> Устраняется и вопрос о том, что первичнее — значимость слова или его

> звучащая природа? Словесное представление — сложный комплекс явлений,

> связь, «система». Значимость слова можно рассматривать как свечу,

> горящую изнутри в бумажном фонаре, и обратно, звуковое представление,

> так называемая фонема, может быть помещена внутри значимости, как та же

> самая свеча в том же самом фонаре."



>   Осип Мандельштам О ПРИРОДЕ СЛОВА

> http://www.silverage.ru/poets/mandel/mand_slovo.html




> > Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:48:41 -0700

> > From: lchcmike@gmail.com

> > To: borlogic@yahoo.com; anton.yasnitsky@gmail.com; ZinchRAE@mtu-

> net.ru; natalia.gajdamaschko@gmail.com; ematusov@udel.edu;

> dmitris@pipeline.com; elampertshepel@mercy.edu

> > CC: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu

> > Subject: [xmca] Mandelshtam translation as intellectual tool

> >

> > Dear Russian colleagues;

> >

> > Some time ago, David Kellog asked for help on the Russian of the

> original

> > version of the following statement as translated in a book of his

> essays in

> > Russian. The issues are of some importance for understanding

> Vygotsky,

> > which, as you know, is a difficult undertaking, not matter what

> language you

> > speak. Could someone find us the original Russian?? And offer your

> > interpretation?

> > mike

> > _______________________________________________

> > xmca mailing list

> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu

> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca


> _________________________________________________________________

> Deixe suas conversas mais divertidas. Baixe agora mesmo novos

> emoticons. É grátis!

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