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Re: [xmca] request for removal of some problems
Dear Andy,
Thank you very much for the attention paid to my request .
This is the said sentence :
[[Here, on the first page, that is ??????, the argumentation might have ended: ]]
My intention was , in fact , to have some authorization for a deletion or a change whatever . Seems , as one Russian friend said, the origin is not well-formed either . Then the loyalty of the translator seems to have gone too far .
Dear Steve ,
Thank you ! You've gone right to the point and provided enlightening clarifications .
And my taste goes something like this : [[ It is just here , on the very first page of Luria's article that one can say the argumentation might have ended . ]]
For such and similar reasons , it seems the " crisis " has got to be very very complicated to be understood . One big problem seems to be that the boundaries between what he agrees with and what he disagrees with are intermingled . Then , I won't refrain from ads-on without focusing on the main ideas and original thoughts . No deconstruction at all which is not , in fact , my authorization and liabilities .
You say , " as you know " about the Plenum CW .
No , dear Steve , the problem is I have no access to the sources unfortunately . And that's why your help , others' help , are considered to be more than what it seems to be .
As google says , someone has put the intended pages in 14 vertical column in blue ; 1 takes you to page 6 ; 2 to page 257 ; and it continues up to 14 which corresponds to page 269 of the said source .
Now because I'm translating the text , these traces and references seem to be very enlightening . Simply , I like to find the thread of which this could have been one link ( message ) if I'm guessing right . Why has it been scanned ? What was the discussion ? Any big memory ?
I also made a change into the previous stuff ; I'm not sure what the xmca machine will do with the changes .
Best
Haydi
--- On Mon, 6/15/09, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
Subject: Re: [xmca] request for removal of some problems
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 12:41 PM
Haydi,
I receive messages from xmca in plain text, so I cannot see what you claim is in a large font. I am sure others have the same problem. Can you send just the excerpt you wanted in large text?
Andy
Haydi Zulfei wrote:
> Dear all , This was formerly written to a very close friend who is very busy with his very different jobs . Now is there anybody to help me with the problem ? For so-called a translation ! of Vygotsky's " The Crisis " into my native language I reached chapter 7 , page 6 of 15 of the Marxist.Org Version of the Work . And you can have the rest of the story below : The sentence in focus has been presented in larger fonts , in particular , what signification and function the " that is " phrase within the sentence , allocates to itself ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks a lot , dear ... ! This is the stuff : Note please here for me the syntax and the WELL-formedness of the sentence is more complicated than its APPROPRIATENESS ; though it's very obvious the very syntax spoils the appropiacy . Thank you very much !
> In the article by Luria [1925, p. 55], for example, psychoanalysis is presented as “a system of monistic psychology,” whose methodology “coincides with the methodology” of Marxism. In order to prove this a number of most naive transformations of both systems are carried out as a result of which they “coincide.” Let us briefly look at these transformations. First of all, Marxism is situated in the general methodology of the epoch, alongside Darwin, Comte, Pavlov, and Einstein, who together create the general methodological foundations of the epoch. The role and importance of each of these authors is, of course, deeply and fundamentally different, and by its very nature the role of dialectical materialism is totally different from all of them. Not to see this means to deduce methodology from the sum total of “great scientific achievements”. As soon as one reduces all these names and Marxism to a common denominator it is not difficult to
> unite Marxism with any “great scientific achievement,” because this was presupposed: the“coincidence” looked for is in the presupposition and not in the conclusion. The“fundamental methodology of the epoch” consists of the sum total of the discoveries made by Pavlov, Einstein, etc. Marxism is one of these discoveries, which belong to the “group of principles indispensable for quite a number of closely-related sciences”
[[Here, on the first page, that is ??????, the argumentation might have ended: ]]
after Einstein one would only have to mention Freud, for he is also a “great scientific achievement” and, thus, a participant in the “general methodological foundations of the epoch.” But one must have much uncritical trust in scientific reputation to deduce the methodology of an epoch from the sum total of famous names.
> There is no unitary basic methodology of the epoch. What we have is a system of fighting, deeply hostile, mutually exclusive, methodological principles and eachtheory – whether by Pavlov or Einstein – has its own methodological merit. To distill a general methodology of the epoch and to dissolve Marxism in it means to transform not only the appearance, but also the essence of Marxism.
> But also Freudian theory is inescapably subjected to the same type of transformations. Freud himself would be amazed to learn that psychoanalysis is a systemof monistic psychology and that “methodologically he carries on... historical materialism” [Fridman, 1925, p. 159]. Not a single psychoanalytic journal would, of course, print the papers by Luria and Fridman. That is highly important. For a very peculiar situation has evolved: Freud and his school have never declared themselves to be monists, materialists, dialecticians, or followers of historical materialism. But they are told: you are both the first, and the second, and the third. You yourselves don’t know who you are. Of course, one can imagine such a situation, it is entirely possible. But then it is necessary to give an exact explanation of the methodological foundations of this doctrine, as conceived of and developed by its authors, and then a proof of the refutation of these
foundations
> and to explain by what miracle and on what foundations psychoanalysis developed a system of methodology which is foreign to its authors. Instead of this, the identity of the two systems is declared by a simple formal-logical superposition of the characteristics – without a single analysis of Freud’s basic concepts, without critically weighing and elucidating his assumptions and starting points, without a critical examination of the genesis of his ideas, even without simply inquiring how he himself conceives of the philosophical foundations of his system
> But, maybe, this formal-logical characterization of the two systems is correct? We have already seen how one distills Marxism’s share in the general methodology of the epoch, in which everything is roughly and naively reduced to a common denominator: if both Einstein and Pavlov and Marx belong to science, then they must have a common foundation. But Freudian theory suffers even more distortions in this process. I will not even mention how Zalkind (1924) mechanically deprives it of its central idea. In his article it is passed over in silence, which is also note worthy. But take the monism of psychoanalysis – Freud would contest it. The article mentions that he turned to philosophical monism, but where, in which words, in connection with what? Is finding empirical unity in some group of facts really always monism? On the contrary, Freud always accepted the mental, the unconscious as a special force which cannot be reduced to something else. Further,
> why is this monism materialistic in the philosophical sense? After all, medical materialism which acknowledges the influence of different organs etc. upon mental structures is still very far from philosophical materialism. In the philosophy of Marxism this concept has a specific, primarily epistemological sense and it is precisely in his epistemology that Freud stands on idealist philosophical grounds. For it is a fact, which is not refuted and not even considered by the authors of the “coincidences,” that Freud’s doctrine of the primary role of blind drives, of the unconscious as being reflected in consciousness in a distorted fashion, goes back directly to Schopenhauer’s idealistic metaphysics of the will and the idea. Freud [1920/1973, pp. 49-50] himself remarks that in his extreme conclusions he is in the harbor of Schopenhauer. But his basic assumptions as well as the main lines of his system are connected with the philosophy of the
great
> pessimist, as even the simplest analysis can demonstrate.
> The other problem is when I reached here " Thus , we see where Freud and his system have come from and where they are heading for : from Schopenhauer and Lipps to Kolnay and mass psychology " . I searched google for " Kolnay and mass psychology " . Among the alternatives ( results ) , I reached for a link which apparently belongs to http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Paper/crisis/6_dir/6_s3.htm
> Now , how can I locate this in the lchc archieve to learn about the whole story in the past ? Is there the possibility of reaching for the whole pages of the work ? Is it something different from the Marxist.Org version ? The page numbers says this must be the case . Now , the more I try , the less I succeed in remembering anything from the past . You see ! It must be the problem of age !!
> Best
> Haydi
>
>
>
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