[xmca] Connectionist Connections

["David H Kirshner" <dkirsh@lsu.edu>]

Talking of L1, L2, conscious and implicit learning, I wonder if anyone
could point me toward some good sources for connectionist insights into
L1/L2 acquisition. Reply off-line to dkirsh@lsu.edu, and I will compile
and share results with the list. 
Thanks.
David Kirshner


-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
On Behalf Of Carol Macdonald
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 9:11 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re: [xmca] On the shape of the zpd and message in a bottle

David
I think you requirement is too strong. This means that children have to
have
scientific concepts, for one thing.

And we don't have a conscious grasp of grammar, otherwise linguists
would be
out of a job.  One of my students taught parts of speech using the
acronym
NAPPIVAC with grade 10 girls,  and it was a real aha! experience, as
they
couldn't do the parts of speech before.

However when we learn a second language formally in school (best seen in
secondary school), the teacher uses scientific concepts from L1 to get
to
L2. Belyov showed us this in the earlier sixties, with very good
outcomes.

Carol

2009/6/8 <ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org>

> David:
>
> you wrote:
>
> "But what do children do? Ontogenetically, word meanings develop in an
> empirical, factual manner; the links between meanings merely mirroring
the
> links between objects. But until concepts can be related to OTHER
> concepts, rather than simply related to objects, conscious grammar
cannot
> emerge."
>
> To make such a bold statement, IMHO, removes the goal orientated
aspect of
> Vygotsky's triangle.  Does the relational aspect of concepts point
towards
> problem solving?
>
> eric
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