RE: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links)

(I posted a simillar e-mail before, but I fear that I lost it, if you recieve it

twice, excuse me please, ok?)

Mike, I think I don't have any personal nor material conditions to encourage
translations of Ivanov's deep/beautiful book... If you wonder any action that
I really could do to help this, please tell me that I will try with persistence.
Now, my project is only try to translate chapter 2 to Portuguese, only in order
to collect some cues, hypertextual links, perhaps. I assume that only this will be
something crazy, because my hard relation with Russian - and this will take
many time. I believe that time don´t work against us, but there are space-time
boundaries, even so. Of course, I can begin to read Einsenshtein's works too,
there are important references in English and Portuguese translated. I will try
to see. I'm waiting for the book "Psychology of composition", after this, I will see...
That film by Luria is very interesting, if we can grasp the semiotic devices
embodied in the movie language, even if it was not a great work of art, there
will be no problem... Who knows? Let´s Khronos and Topos perform their roles.

Thank you, ever.
Achilles



> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 17:41:34 -0800
> From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links)
>
> Maybe you will encourage translations of Ivanov, Achilles.
> Luria has a rather remarkable, "Eisenshteinian" short film he
> made while visiting Stanford university in 1959 (I think). We did not
> include on the CD with the revised autobiography, but it exists somewhere.
> It is not (in my inexpert opinion) a work of distinction, but could only be
> of interest to those who find the luria-Eisenshtein connection of interest.
> mike
>
> On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Yes, thank you. I don't want detour your actual focus.
> > And there is no haste, at all. This book of Ivanov is the
> > same suggested by Bella's friend. "Ocherki po istorii semiotiki
> > v SSSR". There is a version on-line, seems to be reliable:
> > http://philologos.narod.ru/semiotics/ivanov_semio.htm
> > In chapter 2 "Analysis of deep structures of semiotic systems
> > of art", the names of Eisenshtein and Vygotsky (much more
> > the first than the second) are quoted several times.
> > I couldn't translate to Portuguese yet (and I actually will
> > not make a great translation, of course... but is possible
> > to read something, collecting cues). Well, I have so much
> > to see, and you helped me very much, mainly because you
> > understand to be something worthwhile. (a) The letters
> > Eisenshtein-Luria, (b) the cinematic shooting of Luria, and
> > (c) the material used by Luria and Vygosky studing the
> > audience of Eisenstein's movies, would be interesting to try
> > rescue in future, if there will be something preserved yet,
> > perhaps it will not be possible, but nothing to lost in asking
> > for, in appropriate time.
> >
> > Best wishes, good work on your educational matters. Maybe
> > in future something from here can approaches "Aesthetic Edu-
> > ducation" too, who knows? Vygotsky's aesthetic education
> > seemed to be more linked with literary questions, but, at present
> > day, inter-semiotic sistems, devices, of artistic production are
> > in every places, including at school.
> >
> > And thank you again, for all.
> > Achilles
> >
> > > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 10:32:38 -0800
> > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links)
> > >
> > > Keep at it Achilles, This is a good topic. Have you found the Engestrom
> > > piece
> > > on archives of newsletter of lchc on the lchc web page? Use google on
> > home
> > > page of lchc to find it.
> > >
> > > There is a very important book by V.V. Ivanov, "The history of semiotics
> > in
> > > the
> > > USSR" which has a lot on Eisenshtein and Vygotsky that I have been trying
> > to
> > > get translated for 30 years. I will cc Pentti to see if he can make
> > progress
> > > on this
> > > through JREEP.
> > >
> > > I fear I must now focus on local educational matters for a while but am
> > sure
> > > this
> > > line of thought is most worthwhile. Also, Lotman on semiotics of cinema
> > must
> > > be valuable.
> > > mike
> > >
> > > On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The Memory of Tiresias
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Oh, Thanks, Mike, I immediately have searched and found something in
> > > > Portuguese, seems to be very interesting. I will read your suggestion.
> > I
> > > > think this subject "synesthesia" as a possible connection between
> > psychology
> > > > and movie. But other concepts are important like the "generalized
> > image"
> > > > that you quote, but I don't search well yet – and I don´t know the
> > > > relationships between this "generalized image" and "synesthesia", for
> > > > instance. In addition I'm thinking about the problems of "inner speech"
> > and
> > > > "subtext"… There is a book from Mikhail Iampolski about
> > "Intertextuality and
> > > > Film", with a chapter only dedicated to Eisenstein, called "The
> > Invisible
> > > > Text as a Universal Equivalent: Sergei Eisenstein" (Chapter Seven), and
> > he
> > > > discusses the influences of Tynianov's work about Pushkin over
> > Eisenstein's
> > > > reflections about "substitution" and "subtext". Well, nothing related
> > to
> > > > Vygotsky and Luria? But "subtext" was important in Vygotsky´s chapter 7
> > > > (Though and word), even in relation to Stanislavsky's theater. The
> > "hidden"
> > > > aspects of meaning/sense formation seems to be the point, here, in art
> > or in
> > > > everyday life. What do you think?
> > > >
> > > > "Like Tynianov, Eisenstein was intrigued by the theme of substitution,
> > of a
> > > > subtext that might be hidden, but from an angle quite remote from
> > Tynianov's
> > > > own preoccupations. Eisenstein's interest lay not so much in the
> > situation
> > > > of intertextuality itself (in the widest sense of the term, as when a
> > text
> > > > acquires its full meaning through some reference to an extratextual
> > reality)
> > > > as in the existence of some mysterious, hidden equivalent that permits
> > the
> > > > juxtaposition of these various extratextual realities." (Iampolski,
> > 1998, p.
> > > > 222)
> > > >
> > > > IAMPOLSKI, Mikhail (1998) The Memory of Tiresias: Intertextuality and
> > Film.
> > > > Berkeley · Los Angeles: Oxford University of California Press.
> > > >
> > > > Synesthesia, inner speach, subtext, substitution, intertextuality,
> > movie,
> > > > play, drama, action... inter-semiotic process.
> > > >
> > > > Achilles.
> > > >
> > > > > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 09:02:23 -0800
> > > > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links)
> > > > >
> > > > > I would like to think that Ramachandran's work is not unrelated to
> > > > Luria's,
> > > > > Achilles. He is, among other things, quite expert on art. You can
> > find a
> > > > lot
> > > > > on google. This springs up early:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.neurologyreviews.com/jul02/nr_jul02_mindseye.html
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 8:51 AM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't know about Ramachandran, Mike. I have understood only that
> > > > > > synesthesia was a property
> > > > > > of Shereshevsky memory, and what Eisenstein have conceptualized
> > that
> > > > > > process as one of the
> > > > > > properties of normal people's understanding movie language. But,
> > maybe
> > > > not
> > > > > > the main property or
> > > > > > aspect, I don't know. This coming back of "this idea" in the US
> > implied
> > > > > > some misunderstanding?
> > > > > > Achilles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 08:07:34 -0800
> > > > > > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This idea of synethesia has made a big come back with the work of
> > > > > > > Ramachandran and other neuroscientists here in the US, Achilles.
> > Not
> > > > sure
> > > > > > > what the best references are.
> > > > > > > mike
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 4:39 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Well, only to add a file to folder…
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Eisenshtein at Luria's "The mind of a mnemonist"
> > > > > > > > key-word: synesthesia...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1) Shereshevski talking about Eisenstein's voice(s):
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "You know there are people who seem to have many
> > > > > > > > voices, whose voices seem to be an entire composition,
> > > > > > > > a bouquet. The late S. M. Eisenstein had just such a
> > > > > > > > voice: listening to him, it was as though a flame with
> > > > > > > > fibers protruding from it was advancing right toward
> > > > > > > > me. I got so interested in his voice, I couldn't follow
> > > > > > > > what he was saying..." (p.24)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2) Luria quoting Eisenstein I
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "There is another aspect to interpreting words
> > > > > > > > synesthetically (determining meaning, that is,
> > > > > > > > through both sound and sense). Whereas certain
> > > > > > > > words seem not to fit the meaning they conventionally
> > > > > > > > have, and therefore leave one nonplussed, the
> > > > > > > > sound qualities of other words take on particular
> > > > > > > > expressive force. S.'s experience of words was
> > > > > > > > actually a measure of their expressiveness. No wonder,
> > > > > > > > then, that S. M. Eisenstein, the producer, to
> > > > > > > > whom the dynamics of expression were of such
> > > > > > > > crucial importance in his own work, was so intrigued
> > > > > > > > with S." (90-91)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 3) Luria quoting Eisenstein II
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Poets, as we know, are extremely sensitive to the
> > > > > > > > expressive quality of sounds, And I remember, too,
> > > > > > > > that S. M. Eisenstein, in testing students to select
> > > > > > > > those he would train as film directors, asked them
> > > > > > > > to describe their impressions of the variations on the
> > > > > > > > name Mariya (Mariya, Mary, Marusya). He
> > > > > > > > found this an infallible way to single out those who
> > > > > > > > were keenly sensitive to the expressive force of
> > > > > > > > words.
> > > > > > > > This ability was developed to such a degree in
> > > > > > > > S. that he never failed to detect the expressive qualities
> > > > > > > > of sounds. It was only natural, then, that words
> > > > > > > > which others accept as synonyms would have different
> > > > > > > > meanings for him." (92-93)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > LURIA A. R. (1968) The mind of a mnemonist - A Little Book
> > about a
> > > > Vast
> > > > > > > > Memory. Trans. from the Russian by Lynn Solotaroff. With a
> > Foreword
> > > > by
> > > > > > > > Jerome S. Bruner. New York / London: Basic Books, Inc.,
> > Publishers
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > These are all direct quotations to Eisenstein at this book...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Achilles…
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links)
> > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 15:02:02 +0000
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Well,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Excuse me, only more a single little addition:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > These "various kinds of cinematic shooting for scientific
> > > > purposes"
> > > > > > > > > organized by Luria at the Institute of Cinematography, at the
> > end
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > > the 1920's (mentioned by Khomskaia) are very interesting
> > > > historical
> > > > > > > > > sources too (if they survived in time, by any way) - related
> > to
> > > > > > > > > Eisenstein's aesthetical influences on making film or not. I
> > > > guess
> > > > > > > > > that to have any notice about that "cinematic shooting" could
> > be
> > > > > > > > > great too.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thank you.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Achilles.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein (links
> > to
> > > > > > chain)
> > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 03:04:02 +0000
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It's great, Mike. A friend of Bella suggested a book of
> > Ivanov
> > > > > > "Ocherki
> > > > > > > > po istorii semiotiki v SSSR". There is a version on-line, seems
> > to
> > > > be
> > > > > > > > reliable:
> > > > > > > > > > http://philologos.narod.ru/semiotics/ivanov_semio.htm
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In chapter 2 "Analysis of deep structures of semiotic
> > systems
> > > > of
> > > > > > art",
> > > > > > > > the names of Eisenshtein and Vygotsky (much more the first than
> > the
> > > > > > second)
> > > > > > > > are quoted several times. But I couldn't translate yet (well,
> > > > actually
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > not be a great translation...).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Vygotsky's works quoted by Ivanov along the book are:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1 Выготский 1956: Л. С. Выготский. Мышление и речь.
> > Избранные
> > > > > > > > психологические исследования. М., 1956.
> > > > > > > > > > 2 Выготский 1960: Л. С. Выготский. Развитие высших
> > психических
> > > > > > функций.
> > > > > > > > Из неопубликованных трудов. М., 1960.
> > > > > > > > > > 3 Выготский 1968: Л. С. Выготский. Психология искусства.
> > Изд.
> > > > 2.
> > > > > > М.,
> > > > > > > > 1968.
> > > > > > > > > > (I think there are no quotes to Eisenstein by Vygotsky in
> > these
> > > > > > books,
> > > > > > > > that I remember... The relationship must be conceptual,
> > subtextual,
> > > > but
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > can search for direct quotations too, later)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The number of Eisenshtein's works quoted along Ivanov´s
> > book is
> > > > > > bigger
> > > > > > > > than Vygotsky's:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1 Эйзенштейн 1945: S. Eisenstein. Film form. Film sense.
> > Ed. 2.
> > > > NY,
> > > > > > > > 1957.
> > > > > > > > > > 2 Эйзенштейн 1966: С. М. Эйзенштейн. [Письмо Ю. Н.
> > Тынянову]. –
> > > > В
> > > > > > кн.:
> > > > > > > > «Юрий Тынянов. Писатель и ученый». М., 1966.
> > > > > > > > > > 3 Эйзенштейн 1962: С. М. Эйзенштейн. Зараза моих
> > теоретических
> > > > > > > > положений. «Вопросы теории и истории киноискусства». М., 1962.
> > > > > > > > > > 4 Эйзенштейн 1964 а, б, в: С. М. Эйзенштейн. Избранные
> > > > > > произведения, т.
> > > > > > > > 1, 2, 3. М., 1964.
> > > > > > > > > > 5 Эйзенштейн 1966: С. М. Эйзенштейн. Избранные
> > произведения, т.
> > > > 4.
> > > > > > М.,
> > > > > > > > 1966.
> > > > > > > > > > 6 Эйзенштейн 1968: С. М. Эйзенштейн. Избранные
> > произведения, т.
> > > > 5.
> > > > > > М.,
> > > > > > > > 1968.
> > > > > > > > > > 7 Эйзенштейн 1969: Сб. «Броненосец Потемкин». М., 1969.
> > > > > > > > > > 8 Эйзенштейн 1973: С. М. Эйзенштейн. «Капитал». –
> > «Искусство
> > > > кино»,
> > > > > > > > 1973, № 1.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > (4, 5 and 6 are selected works, I can't know the actual
> > titles
> > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > texts quoted - I search for possible works in what Eisenstein
> > > > quotes
> > > > > > > > directly Vygotsky, I guess this occurs at Film form and/or Film
> > > > sense,
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > don´t remember).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I will try to read Ivanov's contribution, as soon as I can
> > - in
> > > > > > order
> > > > > > > > to find some more connections, "inner speach" seems to be an
> > > > important
> > > > > > > > common point.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Achilles.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 17:52:09 -0800
> > > > > > > > > > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein
> > (links to
> > > > > > chain)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > There are new leads in those passages from Khomskaya,
> > which I
> > > > had
> > > > > > > > forgotten
> > > > > > > > > > > about, Achilles. I will try to follow up with friends in
> > > > Moscow.
> > > > > > > > > > > mike
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 5:30 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > > > > > > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > (off topic)
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Note to my last post...
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1) "M.I. Knebel", must be "M.O. Knebel" too - Maria
> > > > Ossipovna
> > > > > > > > (Iossifovna)
> > > > > > > > > > > > Knebel' (1898-1985)...
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Luria and Knebel's text must be:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > * Кнебель М. И., Лурия А. Р. Пути и средства
> > декодирования
> > > > > > смысла.—
> > > > > > > > Вопросы
> > > > > > > > > > > > психологии, 1971, № 4, с. 76—83.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > * Knebel' M. I., Luria A. R. Puty i sredstva
> > dekodirovaniya
> > > > > > smysla
> > > > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > > > > > Voprosy psikhologii, 1971, N. 4, c. 76-83.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > * Knebel' M. I., Luria A. R. Ways and Means of decoding
> > of
> > > > > > sense. -
> > > > > > > > Voprosy
> > > > > > > > > > > > psikhologii, 1971, N. 4, c. 76-83.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I remove my questions about this dyad and this very
> > > > interesting
> > > > > > > > text, and
> > > > > > > > > > > > ask you only about Luria & Eisenstein's letters
> > > > availability -
> > > > > > > > thank you.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Achilles
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein
> > > > (links to
> > > > > > > > chain)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 03:39:11 +0000
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, thank you, Mike… I clearly understand your
> > sugestion
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > agree.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I collected two references to Eisenstein at Luria's
> > > > biography
> > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > Evgenia
> > > > > > > > > > > > Homskaya… A book well known of you, but to me is a good
> > > > > > surprise
> > > > > > > > (I'm far
> > > > > > > > > > > > away from actual university tasks since 2000). After
> > quote,
> > > > I
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > ask
> > > > > > > > > > > > little questions in order to know where can I search
> > > > better.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Evgenia D. Homskaya: Alexander Romanovich Luria: A
> > > > Scientific
> > > > > > > > Biography.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Plenum Series in Russian Neuropsychology. New
> > > > > > > > > > > > York/Boston/Dordrecht/London/Moscow: Kluwer
> > Academic/Plenum
> > > > > > > > Publishers,
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2001.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "An important event in Luria's private life also
> > occurred
> > > > > > during
> > > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > > > > years in Kazan. He met his wife, Vera Nikolayevna
> > > > Blagovidova,
> > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > student at the University of Kazan. Later, in Moscow,
> > she
> > > > > > became an
> > > > > > > > actress
> > > > > > > > > > > > at the studio of the famous theatrical director, A. Y.
> > > > Tairov.
> > > > > > They
> > > > > > > > got
> > > > > > > > > > > > married at the beginning of 1923 but their union lasted
> > > > only
> > > > > > ultil
> > > > > > > > 1929. In
> > > > > > > > > > > > this relatively short period, however, Luria developed
> > most
> > > > of
> > > > > > his
> > > > > > > > artistic
> > > > > > > > > > > > interests in theater, painting, poetry, and so on. It
> > was
> > > > then
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > he
> > > > > > > > > > > > became acquainted with the master of the world's
> > cinema,
> > > > Sergei
> > > > > > M.
> > > > > > > > > > > > EISENSTEIN."
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (Chapter 1. Childhood and Youth – p. 13)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "During the 1940s Luria kept in close touch with the
> > > > famous
> > > > > > film
> > > > > > > > director
> > > > > > > > > > > > S. M. EISENSTEIN, who made such masterpieces of world
> > > > cinema as
> > > > > > > > Potemkim and
> > > > > > > > > > > > Ivan The Terrible. Since becoming acquainted in the
> > 1920s,
> > > > > > Luria
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > Eisenstein shareda a common interest in the psychology
> > of
> > > > art,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > psychological aspects of artistic expressiveness.
> > > > Eisenstein
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > interested
> > > > > > > > > > > > very much in the phenomenon of the mnemonist
> > Shereshevsky,
> > > > > > studied
> > > > > > > > by Luria.
> > > > > > > > > > > > In 1929, through Luria's recommendation, EISENSTEIN was
> > > > > > introduced
> > > > > > > > to Kurt
> > > > > > > > > > > > Lewin, with whom he discussed the problem of artistic
> > > > > > > > expressiveness. At the
> > > > > > > > > > > > end of the 1920's, Luria organized at the Istitute of
> > > > > > > > Cinematography to
> > > > > > > > > > > > execute various kinds of cinematic shooting for
> > scientific
> > > > > > > > purposes. In the
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1930s, Luria and EISENSTEIN continued to exchange
> > letters.
> > > > > > Their
> > > > > > > > > > > > correspondence continued during the Kharkov period and
> > > > during
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > war. After
> > > > > > > > > > > > the war, and until EISENSTEIN's sudden death in 1948,
> > they
> > > > > > often
> > > > > > > > met, shared
> > > > > > > > > > > > books, and talked. Under Luria's influence, EISENSTEIN
> > > > wrote
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > articles
> > > > > > > > > > > > "Psychology of art" and "Lectures on the Psychology of
> > Art"
> > > > > > (see
> > > > > > > > Eisenstein,
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1987, 1988-1996, 1998).
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The psychology of art was also a particular theme for
> > > > Luria
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > Vygotsky
> > > > > > > > > > > > (see Vygotsky's book, the Psychology of Art, Moscow,
> > 1982).
> > > > In
> > > > > > > > Luria's
> > > > > > > > > > > > background, this theme is not very well known, although
> > its
> > > > > > > > expressions were
> > > > > > > > > > > > very numeros and diverse. For example, his article
> > written
> > > > with
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > well-known film director, M. I. Knebel, "Ways and Means
> > of
> > > > > > Semantic
> > > > > > > > Coding"
> > > > > > > > > > > > (1971R), discussed verbal and nonverbal aspects of
> > speech
> > > > > > (mime,
> > > > > > > > gestures)
> > > > > > > > > > > > and was important for both the psychology of speech and
> > the
> > > > > > > > psychology of
> > > > > > > > > > > > art."
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (Chapter 4, The Forties: World War II and the
> > > > Rehabilitation
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hospital-Neuropsychology in the Making - p. 39)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ******
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Well. I only ask you for these wonderful letters and
> > for
> > > > > > Luria's
> > > > > > > > article
> > > > > > > > > > > > with M. I. Knebel – if it could give us some cues about
> > > > what
> > > > > > Luria
> > > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > > > > about movies and about Eisenshtein's influence in his
> > > > thinking
> > > > > > > > about this as
> > > > > > > > > > > > well… In other hand, the articles of Eisenstein about
> > > > > > "Psychology
> > > > > > > > of Art"
> > > > > > > > > > > > seems to be the same quoted by Christie & Taylor (1993)
> > > > > > published
> > > > > > > > in Leyda
> > > > > > > > > > > > (ed.) "The Psychology of Composition" – this book is
> > > > already
> > > > > > > > available. Do
> > > > > > > > > > > > you think that can exist more than two papers requested
> > to
> > > > > > > > Eisenstein for
> > > > > > > > > > > > Luria? My copy here don´t have the actual references,
> > and I
> > > > > > don´t
> > > > > > > > have the
> > > > > > > > > > > > book itself yet... And my option was to aquire Leyda
> > edited
> > > > > > > > Eisenstein's, by
> > > > > > > > > > > > the moment.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > All the titles I have are the following:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > * Eisenstein, "Psychology of Art", in Psycholgia
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Processov Chudojestvennogo Tvorchestva
> > (Moscow,
> > > > > > 1980), p.
> > > > > > > > 195
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (quoted by JULIA VASSILIEVA in her paper "Eisenstein
> > and
> > > > his
> > > > > > > > Method:
> > > > > > > > > > > > recent publications in Russia")
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > * "The psychology of composition" (211)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > * "The psychology of art" (211)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > * "The psychology of compositon" (same title... but
> > > > another
> > > > > > text
> > > > > > > > - at
> > > > > > > > > > > > 249)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (at the contents of Eisenstein, S.M. "The
> > Eisenstein´s
> > > > > > > > Collection".
> > > > > > > > > > > > Edited by Richard Taylor. Sagull Books, 2006)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm seeing that I can not give meaninful
> > contributions. I
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > made a
> > > > > > > > > > > > question, and now I only have some other questions to
> > make
> > > > > > again.
> > > > > > > > I'll wait
> > > > > > > > > > > > for other XMCA contributions, by Mike and all the
> > people
> > > > when
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > > > > possible. And I will continue search data where it are
> > > > > > availlable
> > > > > > > > to me here
> > > > > > > > > > > > and now. This was not my main goal today (I was
> > thinking
> > > > things
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > > psychology and mental health), but sometimes an action
> > > > becomes
> > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > activity,
> > > > > > > > > > > > no?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, and my best wishes,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Achilles.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:43:02 -0700
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and Eisenshtein
> > > > (links
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > chain)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would be great to get the info on Eisenshtein
> > and
> > > > > > LSV/ARL.
> > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > entire Stanislavsy and beyond discussion is quite
> > > > broad.
> > > > > > Yrjo
> > > > > > > > has
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > written on this topic.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > mike
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/31/08, Mike Cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/31/08, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > > > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> To add more two or three links to a
> > chain-complex
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> 1) About Luria and Eisenshtein: "Eisenstein
> > planned
> > > > two
> > > > > > > > courses on
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> psychology of art at Luria's request, in 1940
> > and
> > > > 1947
> > > > > > (both
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > Leyda
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> (ed.)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "The Psychology of Composition")." (Christie &
> > > > Taylor,
> > > > > > 1993,
> > > > > > > > p. 225
> > > > > > > > > > > > -
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Endnote 87); I ask for an used edition at
> > amazon,
> > > > seems
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > be fine.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "Psychology of Composition" sounds like an
> > > > interesting
> > > > > > title
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > subject
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> me, composing evoques spinozian concept of
> > "joy".
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> 2) About Eisenshtein and Stanislavsky
> > similarity:
> > > > there
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > a very
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> interesting note by Nikolai Veresov commenting
> > > > > > Vygotsky's
> > > > > > > > "genetic
> > > > > > > > > > > > law of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> cultural development" explaining something about
> > > > what
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > means by
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "Category":
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "Category is the philosophical concept. How can
> > one
> > > > > > imagine
> > > > > > > > that the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> function exists as a category? Sounds strange,
> > but
> > > > > > according
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> STANISLAVSKY
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> (famous theatre director Vygotsky used to know)
> > AND
> > > > > > Sergey
> > > > > > > > > > > > EISENSHTEIN
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> (filmmaker and a friend of Vygotsky) "category"
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > drama
> > > > > > > > means
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "collision", "event", dramatic unit, and the
> > unit of
> > > > > > > > analysis of
> > > > > > > > > > > > drama:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> might be a dialogue (mostly) or emotional
> > explosion
> > > > and
> > > > > > so
> > > > > > > > on.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Vygotsky
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> speaking about development as a process of
> > events,
> > > > > > > > collisions and
> > > > > > > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> reflections in both planes." (N. VERESOV) (Caps
> > > > mine)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Available at
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > http://webpages.charter.net/schmolze1/vygotsky/vygotsky.html
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I don´t know the actual source yet - If there is
> > a
> > > > book
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > paper by
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Verosov
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> about these matters. I will check.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> 3) About Eisenshtein and Stanislavsky
> > differences:
> > > > > > > > Eisenshtein
> > > > > > > > > > > > seemed to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> be
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> closer to Meyerhold than to Stanislavsky, the
> > pome
> > > > of
> > > > > > Eris
> > > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > > > > maybe
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> differences of emphasis in verbal or non-verbal
> > > > > > components
> > > > > > > > of the
> > > > > > > > > > > > actor's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> play... but this stands only like um more
> > question,
> > > > not
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > secure
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> information. Seems that there was, at that time,
> > > > some
> > > > > > kind
> > > > > > > > of fight
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> against
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> "verbalization" in theatre, in which Meyerhold
> > was
> > > > > > activily
> > > > > > > > > > > > envolved, but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> the actual role of Eisenshtein in that dispute
> > is
> > > > > > nothing
> > > > > > > > clear to
> > > > > > > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Eisenstein movies seems to operate with some
> > kind of
> > > > > > > > "pictograms",
> > > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> nothing to affirm about absolutily dispense
> > "words",
> > > > > > even
> > > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > > > > "inner
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> speach" - must be something about this in his
> > own
> > > > > > writings,
> > > > > > > > quoting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Vygotsky, I guess that I remember something like
> > > > this in
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > work of a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> filmmaker friend of mine, some talks with her.
> > But
> > > > it
> > > > > > was a
> > > > > > > > long
> > > > > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ago,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> too. I remain in my thinking by complex, you
> > know.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> What do you think about these links? There are
> > > > something
> > > > > > > > useful?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Thank you.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Achilles.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and
> > Eisenshtein
> > > > (a
> > > > > > > > question)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 01:02:11 +0000
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Oh, it's great, Mike...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Borges wrote a tale named "Funes..."
> > recreating
> > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Shereshevsky... you know. So
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> seems that there is very artistic features in
> > real
> > > > > > human
> > > > > > > > psychic
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> experience. About "generalized
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> image" I will see... Is this concept at "Iazik
> > i
> > > > > > soznanie"?
> > > > > > > > We have
> > > > > > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Portuguese version. I have
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> read many years ago. I don't remember if I knew
> > > > this
> > > > > > > > concept , even
> > > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> another book. It
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> occurs to me, right now, to search immediately
> > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > about what
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> system
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> of acting was
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> used by Eisenstein's actors, if we can find any
> > > > > > relation
> > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Stanislavsky's system of creative
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> actor's work... studied by Vygotsky discussed
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > text
> > > > > > > > from 1932
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> (publish in Collected Woks,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> vol. 6 - prologue by Dot Robbins), and so
> > important
> > > > in
> > > > > > 1934
> > > > > > > > > > > > (thought and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> word) with the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> notion of "subtext"... If you tell us about
> > > > > > psychological
> > > > > > > > studies
> > > > > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> audience, and the feelings
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> and understanding of audience, the way that
> > film is
> > > > > > > > constructed and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> actor
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> plays their roles
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> must be interesting to study too. After all,
> > all we
> > > > > > must to
> > > > > > > > act...
> > > > > > > > > > > > (as
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> "akt", and as "postuk").
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I had think about the other way of mutual
> > > > influences in
> > > > > > > > dialog
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> psychology-movie too: what we
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> can learn from movie semiotics? And/or what
> > about
> > > > > > > > Eisenstein can
> > > > > > > > > > > > teach
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> something to historical-
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> cultural approach? For instance, the notion of
> > > > > > > > "non-indifferent
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> nature"...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I'm thinking by complex,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> like ever I do. But now, it's the only way I
> > can
> > > > think.
> > > > > > And
> > > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> all
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> links that I can put in the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> chain until now. And we even need a thesis and
> > the
> > > > > > young
> > > > > > > > guy/girl
> > > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> it
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> in mind - I hope this
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> person can will arise soon in this context...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> I will see something about Eisenshtein and
> > > > > > Stanislavsky,
> > > > > > > > right now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> What do you think? It can be useful?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Thank very much, for all your contributions
> > since
> > > > > > before,
> > > > > > > > since
> > > > > > > > > > > > many
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> years
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> ago.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Achilles.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 16:10:46 -0700
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky, Luria and
> > > > Eisenshtein
> > > > > > (a
> > > > > > > > question)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > Excellent question. Lets see what we can find
> > > > out.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > There are references in Eisenshtein's
> > published
> > > > work
> > > > > > > > about his
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > activities
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > Shereshevsky, the mnemonist. And there is, I
> > > > believe,
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > close
> > > > > > > > > > > > relation
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > between the idea of "generalized image" in
> > Luria
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > Eisenshtein's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > notion of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > montage.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > All we need is a bright young person with a
> > > > thesis in
> > > > > > > > mind and a
> > > > > > > > > > > > ghost
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > chance
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > of getting it done in this context.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > mike
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Achilles
> > Delari
> > > > > > Junior <
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > Greetings for all.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > One more extemporaneous question.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > If I'm not misremembering, in "Making
> > mind",
> > > > Mike
> > > > > > Cole
> > > > > > > > exposes
> > > > > > > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > very
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > interesting data about Luria and Vygotsky's
> > > > works
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > audience
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > Eisenshtein's movies, didn't he expose?
> > > > Puzirey, I
> > > > > > > > remember
> > > > > > > > > > > > well,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > has
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > said
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > something about Eisenshtein's reading of
> > > > > > "Psychology of
> > > > > > > > Art",
> > > > > > > > > > > > in the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > files
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > of Eisenshtein's personal library was
> > founded
> > > > an
> > > > > > > > exemplar of
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > book,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > which at several places are underlined the
> > > > words
> > > > > > > > "contend and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > form"...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > basis for his own work has filmmaker. But,
> > what
> > > > > > more we
> > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > > > know
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > those
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > works with audience? Everything was loosed
> > with
> > > > > > War? Is
> > > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > follower or
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > co-worker that have dedicate even a single
> > book
> > > > or
> > > > > > > > paper about
> > > > > > > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > researchs? I Have thinking about these
> > > > questions
> > > > > > since
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1991-1994
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > when
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > I had
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > read the fragments that I quote here, and
> > only
> > > > now
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > can ask
> > > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > you.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > It's
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > not my main subject now, but I'm concerning
> > > > with it
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > > > personal
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > way,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > why not to ask for? Somebody can give me
> > some
> > > > help?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > Thank you very much for your attention and
> > > > help.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > Achilles.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > Conheça o Windows Live Spaces, a rede de
> > > > > > > > relacionamentos do
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > Messenger!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.amigosdomessenger.com.br/_______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Confira vídeos com notícias do NY Times, gols
> > > > direto do
> > > > > > > > Lance,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> videocassetadas e muito mais no MSN Video!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > http://video.msn.com/?mkt=pt-br_______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Cansado de espaço para só 50 fotos? Conheça o
> > > > Spaces, o
> > > > > > site
> > > > > > > > de
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> relacionamentos com até 6,000 fotos!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.amigosdomessenger.com.br_______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Conheça o Windows Live Spaces, a rede de
> > relacionamentos
> > > > do
> > > > > > > > Messenger!
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.amigosdomessenger.com.br/_______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > Cansado de espaço para só 50 fotos? Conheça o Spaces, o
> > > > site de
> > > > > > > > > > > > relacionamentos com até 6,000 fotos!
> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.amigosdomessenger.com.br
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Confira vídeos com notícias do NY Times, gols direto do
> > Lance,
> > > > > > > > videocassetadas e muito mais no MSN Video!
> > > > > > > > > > http://video.msn.com/?mkt=pt-br
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Cansado de espaço para só 50 fotos? Conheça o Spaces, o site
> > de
> > > > > > > > relacionamentos com até 6,000 fotos!
> > > > > > > > > http://www.amigosdomessenger.com.br
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Instale a Barra de Ferramentas com Desktop Search e ganhe
> > EMOTICONS
> > > > > > para o
> > > > > > > > Messenger! É GRÁTIS!
> > > > > > > > http://www.msn.com.br/emoticonpack
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Cansado de espaço para só 50 fotos? Conheça o Spaces, o site de
> > > > > > relacionamentos com até 6,000 fotos!
> > > > > > http://www.amigosdomessenger.com.br
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > Cansado de espaço para só 50 fotos? Conheça o Spaces, o site de
> > > > relacionamentos com até 6,000 fotos!
> > > > http://www.amigosdomessenger.com.br
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Instale a Barra de Ferramentas com Desktop Search e ganhe EMOTICONS para o
> > Messenger! É GRÁTIS!
> > http://www.msn.com.br/emoticonpack
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >

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Received on Mon Nov 10 13:53:51 2008