Re: [xmca] My ISCAR

Dear Mike and Steve and others who have commented on my paper. Thank you very muchfor the comments and I welcome more discussion on it. As I have said, it is a work in progress (being part of my phd write up due end of the year!)
I have been travelling since the ISCAR conference and have only started to address my very full email box.
Mike, yes, I can send the paper to the xmca site and will do so tomorrow when I am in the office.
Regards
Mary

Mary van der Riet; School of Psychology; University of KwaZulu-Natal
Private Bag X01, Scottsville, 3209

email: vanderriet@ukzn.ac.za
tel: 033 260 6163; fax: 033 2605809

>>> "Mike Cole" <lchcmike@gmail.com> 09/28/08 00:59 AM >>>
Super interesting discussion, Steve. Thanks. Seems like Mary's paper should
be added to those for discussion, but our plate is getting so full!!

In this connection, there is a tie for article from XMCA for
discussion.Someone who has not, please vote and let us get that
article made avaialable
by Taylor
and Francis for all.

Mary-- Perhaps you can simply send your paper to XMCA and them which has the
time/inclination can start discussing?

Emily. I misread your initial summary of Carl's point. I thought you wrote
that
that cultural psych must attend to explanation, but it turns out to be
exploitation.
Echoing Steve on the inattention to class.

Negative zopeds:

Seems like we have to ask ourselves about "which way is up," the implicit or
explicit teleology that allows us to speak of development/regression. In the
*Construction Zone*, Denis Newman, Peg Griffin, and I have an example of
"regression" or "negative development" that could be linked to the idea of a
negative zoped. But I am not sure this is a useful way to talk. It sort of
suggests that all development occurs only if there is a specifically
designed zoped to induce it. Life is messier than that is my intuition.

On Sat, Sep 27, 2008 at 3:49 AM, Worthen, Helena Harlow <
hworthen@illinois.edu> wrote:

> Steve, I'm going to print this out and keep it. It will inform my use of
> the activity triangle from now on.
>
>
> Helena
>
> Helena Worthen, Clinical Associate Professor
> Labor Education Program, Institute of Labor & Industrial Relations
> University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
> 504 E. Armory, Room 227
> Champaign, IL 61821
> Phone: 217-244-4095
> hworthen@uiuc.edu
> http://lep.ilir.uiuc.edu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> Behalf Of Steve Gabosch
> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 9:29 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] My ISCAR
>
> What a great way to describe what ISCAR felt like, Emily. And I
> really liked Jonna's post last week. What I get from these posts is
> what I also came away with at ISCAR - many new and many deepened
> relationships that mean a great deal to me. And a whirlwind of social
> and intellectual moments that kept my brain and heart at full tilt
> from the beginning to the end. New ways for me to think about old
> questions - and new questions I had never considered.
>
> There are so many issues and ideas and threads and themes that ISCAR
> moved me forward on - or made me aware of for the first time - that I
> couldn't begin to articulate half of them. So I'll mention just one
> set of questions that came up in a few of my many stimulating
> conversations.
>
> Basically, this: Is the activity triangle a useful tool?
>
> After a number of conversations where these kinds of questions came
> up, I found myself being able to list 6 useful aspects of the activity
> triangle. And as I did, I could see many aspects of the conference
> itself reflected in these various aspects.
>
> One, the activity triangle suggests a way of joining the two overall
> aspects of activity - the sociological (rules, communities, divisions
> of labor) and psychological (subjects, mediating tools/signs, and
> objects) by providing mnemonics for places to start investigating both
> aspects simultaneously. In other words, "activity" is used as a way
> to conceptualize human experience in both psychological and
> sociological terms at the same time, something that to my knowledge
> has never been successfully done, and rarely attempted. The triangle
> in some ways represents this new approach, both in spirit and in
> methodology.
>
> This freedom and facility to go from one kind of "realm" to another at
> ISCAR was one of its hallmarks for me. The incredible range of
> research at ISCAR from the macro to the micro, the social to the
> psychic, the biological to the historic, the cultural to the neural,
> and everything in between is extraordinary and unique in academic
> social science. One would have to search far and wide to find another
> scientific conference that does anything close to this kind of
> analysis and synthesis of so many aspects of humanity, aspects that
> are traditionally divided into highly bounded disciplines. The
> activity triangle in its simplistic way represents this profound bio-
> social, cultural-historical, socio-cultural and cultural-psychic range
> of perspectives so many brought to ISCAR. By poking its upper half
> into the realm of traditional psychology and its bottom half into the
> realm of traditional sociology, the ATr indicates the possibility of
> seeing the human world through the eyes of human activity in **all**
> its forms and levels from a common perspective. While most probably
> don't actually refer to the activity triangle very often, if at all,
> the idea of seeing human activity in an entirely new way that breaks
> down and transcends all the old barriers and restrictions is something
> I saw many at ISCAR striving for, each in their own way.
>
> Two, the ATr emphasizes mediational and transformational dynamics in
> all human activities, actions and operations - everything is
> connected, everything is changing everything else, and is being
> changed itself. I saw this sense of the dynamism of life constantly
> expressed at the conference, in so many creative ways. But it was
> even deeper than that. The sense that the world not only is changing,
> but can be **consciously** changed, seemed to pervade the conference.
> I found this attitude very inspiring.
>
> Three, the ATr emphasizes that activity has a strong cyclical aspect.
> It indicates how each incremental change in an activity system steps
> through all the dynamic relationships within it, and which it is
> within, and creates a slightly new system and changed object each
> time, over and over, around and around, until the system itself is
> transformed into something else.
>
> Fourth, it also indicates how activity has a strong linear aspect -
> how alongside its cyclical meanings, the triangle also captures in a
> single picture, moving from left to right, how a process can begin
> with a subject and a context, and end with a transformed object. The
> ability of the ATr to depict both the cyclical and linear aspects of
> change - both continuity and discontinuity - is one of its most
> powerful features, and helps explain why it can be so easily used to
> depict so many different things in so many different time frames and
> scales.
>
> Fifth, the inner triangles and locations of the nexus points of the AT
> allow for a depiction of the key economic categories of production,
> distribution, exchange and consumption. Michael Roth has an
> interesting discussion of this aspect of the activity triangle in a
> recent editorial in the MCA Journal. Picking up on his thoughts, I
> found myself talking with some about how the activity triangle can be
> used not just for activity systems, which are determined by
> fundamental motives, such as eating and being sheltered, but also for
> what I call "action systems," where goals drive repeated actions, such
> as going to a particular school class or commuting to work. Most uses
> of the ATr in empirical analyses seem to be focused on "action"
> systems rather than "activity" systems - that is, on goal-driven
> rather than motive-driven activities. This is not a problem, in my
> mind. Rather, it shows the general applicability of the AT as a way
> to help one begin an inquiry into any level of human activity. This
> issue came up in a session where Kris Gutierrez spoke about cultural
> practices. In some activity conceptions, the terms "action" and
> "practice" clash. Using this "action system" concept, however, the
> terms are complementary - cultural practices are simply repeated
> actions that become culturally routinized and individually
> internalized. The way that Kris discusses and theorizes cultural
> practices, in my view, is a very good example of the multidisciplinary
> power of CHAT.
>
> Sixth, the triangle represents (you have to go to the Helsinki site to
> see this depicted in a little animation) how animal relations (nature,
> population, individuals) were transformed into human relations.
> Individuals became subjects, populations became communities, and
> nature became humanly transformed objects - with entirely new entities
> appearing for the first time, such as tools/signs, rules, and
> divisions of labor. So the ATr also has meaning regarding some key
> anthropological concepts.
>
> There are these, and other useful ideas represented in the activity
> triangle, even if individually these ideas are general and basic, and
> if some of these ideas are less important to some, and more important
> to others. Taken together, however, these ideas begin to explain how
> so many people from so many disciplines from so many parts of the
> world speaking so many different languages can find a common
> perspective - human activity - from which to discuss, research and
> change the human world.
>
> The activity triangle and the activity theorizing it suggests, despite
> its occasional ridicule (after all, it is just a little cartoon), and
> despite its obvious simplicity, is somehow able to represent important
> aspects of one of the most multidisciplinary approaches to human
> experience ever invented. It certainly cannot answer any questions or
> do any calculations - sorry to disappoint any cognitive
> quantitativists who have held such hopes :-)) - but in its simplistic
> way it indicates certain ways to begin asking useful questions. Any
> toolbox that helps people ask new kinds of questions is certainly
> something to think about - don't you agree?
>
> There were many good examples of employing this toolbox at ISCAR. For
> me, one of finest pieces of research work and use of the CHAT and ATr
> toolbox that I saw at ISCAR was Mary Van der Riet's keynote address on
> "CHAT and HIV/AIDS: An activity system analysis of a lack of behaviour
> change". This research is a brilliant example of how the activity
> triangle and CHAT can help ask questions in new ways. A life and
> death question was addressed: why are so many sexually active young
> people in South Africa not using condoms, despite the very high rate
> of HIV infection? This paper is a classic and I hope becomes well read.
>
> This link should get those with Moodle accounts to her paper:
> http://moodle.id.ucsb.edu/file.php/1428/Van_der_Riet_Mary.pdf
>
> Looking at how a) CHAT guided Mary, how b) she was able to critique
> not only the existing individualist rational-behavioral paradigms
> currently in vogue in SA government AIDS prevention programs, but also
> c) aptly critique the critics of these programs, and d) contrast a
> CHAT approach with these perspectives, and then go on to e) begin to
> dig deeply into the social motives and cultural issues surrounding
> this complex question, the methodological power of CHAT and the ATr
> stood way out for me.
>
> In my view, Mary moved the entire CHAT community forward with this
> single paper. At the same time, while this paper shows how CHAT can
> be applied to **analyzing** critical social problems, it does not have
> (nor did it claim to have) any suggested **solutions**. It will be
> very interesting if this research effort eventually does generate
> suggested solutions, and if they can be implemented, and then their
> results observed. That is a tall order, of course, but it is what
> CHAT must do. Another shortcoming, not just of the paper, but of CHAT
> itself - as well as the activity triangle as it is presently construed
> - is that little attention is paid to class issues. CHAT in its
> current form today does not obscure attention to issues of social
> class, but it also does not directly facilitate it. But these and
> other limitations of this paper are a consequence of its strengths -
> it applies 3rd generation CHAT to a very difficult and vital social
> problem, revealing both the effectiveness and limitations of the kinds
> of questions 3rd generation CHAT has so far learned how to pose.
>
> As a kind of answer to the pragmatic question I asked to start with -
> is the activity triangle useful? - I would suggest that it matters
> little whether you use this cartoon or any other number of ways to
> collect your thoughts. The heart of the matter lies in what questions
> you ask. And that little ATr has some good ones to get you started,
> as Mary Van der Riet's paper illustrates.
>
> Finally, this business about asking questions is one of the ways I
> find helpful to understand what brings the people of ISCAR (and the
> people of xmca, too) together. We certainly don't agree on all the
> same answers, but despite the wide variety of disciplines, cultures
> and traditions we are influenced by, we are often asking similar
> questions - and above all, we are willing learn new ways to ask and
> pursue them. I saw this in nearly every single presentation I saw, in
> every conversation I had at ISCAR, and in every person I listened to.
> For me, this constant striving to learn new ways to ask and pursue
> questions about every aspect of humanity was the heart and soul of the
> entire conference - "my ISCAR", as Emily nicely put it. And that is
> something I will always keep with me and treasure.
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 26, 2008, at 12:08 AM, Duvall, Emily wrote:
>
> > It's hard to pull the week together, to be honest.
> > So many people, so many sessions, so little sleep... but here goes
> > some
> > stream of consciousness... perhaps it will encourage others to talk in
> > more depth.
> > At some point I would like to talk a bit more about the work that
> > Tatiana shared with me once I have worked with it a bit.
> > Truly a gift... thank you for the intro Elina!
> > ~ Em
> >
> > My ISCAR
> >
> > Monica, my intrepid and talented grad student, and I find the elevator
> > to room 4412.
> > We don't have to walk up four flights!
> > We think it's four flights...
> > Home for the next week... :-)
> >
> > There's Ana...time for wining, dining and...
> > CHAT-ting!
> > We see Pooh on the way... they call it Pooh, Ana says..
> > It's a pile of rocks. We have a landmark.
> > The Bear.
> >
> > Monday I sleep and grade my online class;
> > I thought I'd get out to go kayaking
> > I say hi to Gordon - I make it out to get a Latte; soy.
> > Monica was off to CHADOC.
> > We're up half the night talking.
> >
> > Tuesday it begins in earnest.
> > The importance, eh?
> >
> > Drawing,
> > Drawing pictures, arrows, squiggles...
> >
> > Primacy of the word in psychological development
> > 'Seeds of communication' as mother and child smile at each other
> > Readiness to take culture in... Zinchenko
> > Sensation/acts integrated through affect...
> >
> > John-Steiner - the complementarity of cognition/affect
> > Dialectical relation.
> > Cole's brain and culture co-construct
> > What about schooling constructing, schooling as culture
> > Consequences of schooling
> > Neurophysiological
> >
> > Smagorinsky et al...
> > Arts in core curriculum
> > Role of affect in writing...
> > Mahn: Writing Protocol
> > Writing to Learn
> > Dialogic interaction, negotiation of meaning, analysis of text
> > Promotion of conceptual thinking
> > Allowing students to access the concept in their own language
> >
> > ...ways in, eh?
> >
> > Putting more faces to names on xmca... Preiss, Connery...
> >
> > Tuesday night, I head out to sing-along Mama Mia with an old friend
> > from
> > high school...
> > I skip Carl's fireside chat...
> > Later Carl asks me if I prefer singing to Marx?
> > 12 years of choir notwithstanding, I think I'm better off with Marx.
> >
> > Views of culture influence psychological phenomenon
> > Cultural psychology should be focused on explanation
> > Ratner - negative impact of ZPD
> > Think about the etiquette of race,
> > Explain the psychology, the perpetuation of oppression
> >
> > National narrative: Wertsch and the cultural tools that we don't know
> > are there
> > How they shape... narrative templates, like a schematic
> > Narrative power rather than accuracy, but grounded in historical
> > episodes
> > Example:
> > 1. Setting: Russia is peaceful
> > 2. Trouble: wonton attack - want to destroy Russian
> > 3. Russia: almost destroyed
> > 4. Russian heroism & sacrifice = victory
> > Ethnocentric narcissism...
> >
> > Symbolic tools may not help if you don't know how to use them
> > Kozulin - must introduce them!
> > Mediated learning experience: immigrant/minority students learning new
> > ways
> > Rigorous mathematical thinking example
> > Foster internalization of psychological tools
> > The factory metaphor...
> >
> > USD
> > CHAT-ting!
> > Taking turns in the Israeli army and the ease of switching between
> > English and Afrikaans...
> > The trials of living in England if you're not English...
> > You know, you just can't get a glass of Riesling in California.
> >
> > It's Thursday so it must be Dynamic Assessment!
> > And it's a Penn State reunion Thorne...
> > And then Poehner and Lantolf...
> > My introduction to Vygotsky.
> > Iddings talks DA... high stakes testing for ESL students
> > Poehner talks DA...understanding the object by changing it
> > Roth talks DA... problematizing... is there something that can be
> > assessed
> > Atencio talks DA... try to bring in authentic/world... not just an
> > analytic lens
> >
> > Dinner out - we miss the aquarium.
> > CHAT-ting!
> > Peter and Leo, Jim and Holbrook, Steve and Matt, and...
> > Monica and I are up late again, talking, CHAT-ting.
> > She has to listen to my talk rehearsal.
> > I should have taped it.
> >
> > I change it at the last minute...
> >
> > It's Friday....and MORE DA!
> > Some issues with scheduling...
> > Kozulin talks DA...cognitive modifiability with adults, new
> > immigrants,
> > changing futures
> > I talk DA... high stakes testing of reading for children with learning
> > disabilities
> > Robbins talks DA... zones of potential development
> > ... some issues with technology.... timing
> > Kotik finds us a room and we gather to talk DA for hours more...
> > Lantolf and Poehner talk about their training cd...
> >
> > The Friday night party...
> > Wolfgang tells me about cortisol levels and ADHD...
> > Elina introduces me to Tatiana
> > My Saturday is planned...
> > International song fest after the conga...
> >
> > Akhutina and I spend the morning together.
> > She graciously takes me through her work.
> > And I see where I need to go next. This is my high point.
> > I see where I have stopped too soon, both theoretically and
> > practically.
> > It's the impetus I need to move forward.
> > The School of Attention materials are so much deeper than our western
> > ways.
> > I see how much time we waste.
> > How superficial the content in our schools seems.
> > Neuropsychology... Isn't this close to where we began with Cole?
> >
> > My head and heart are full.
> > But I manage to catch Rogoff so my cup runnethed over (my grammar
> > overrunneth)
> > Did you get the handouts Monica?
> > And the ethnography...
> > Hey, there we are, University of Idaho!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
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Received on Sun Sep 28 05:40 PDT 2008