Re: [xmca] Re: Re[2]: Aufforderungscharakter/Valence/Affordance/Lewin/Gibson

Hello again! :)

I fully agree to the different levels (I think I mentioned something
along these lines myself --> this is mentioned not to "insist" on my
point, but rather to explain how I really think it is the case! :-).

I think the key point is exactly to make sure we all understand and
share which level it is we are discussing (and I do hope I did not sound
to nitty-gritty, if anything it is an indication of how much I have to
learn!), and I am most grateful (again!) for the clarification of a
possible source of misunderstanding (overloaded/reused terminology
that could lead to long disputes/distract from addressing the actual
phenomena of interest.)

A particular interest of mine in fact lies in understanding better the
nature of the "natural-scientific" divide, what the "natural-scientific"
contribution can and cannot identify (not sure it serves the cause if
I point at Dilthey, Dewey, Husserl...Blumenberg, Clancey, Feltovich,
etc.: this is just meant to help "place" me.)

Apologies for the too many words, too --
and a very good start into the working week!

Paolo

On Sun, 25 May 2008, Michalis Kontopodis wrote:
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Re: Re[2]:
> Aufforderungscharakter/Valence/Affordance/Lewin/Gibson
>
> That is very interesting, Mike and Paolo et al
>
> However I would hesitate to bring the natural-scientific approach of Gibson
> so close to that of Vygotsky.
>
> Let's think of an example:
>
> A carpet is soft. It has the affordance to step on it without producing any
> noise.
>
> Because of this affordance it INVITES libraries to use it
> (Aufforderungscharakter), so that students can work with concentration even
> if other students are walking here and there.
>
> I see here two different levels of analysis.
>
> ?
>
>
>
>
>
> Michalis Kontopodis
>
> research associate
> humboldt university berlin
> tel.: +49 (0) 30 2093 3716
> fax.: +49 (0) 30 2093 3739
> http://www.csal.de
> http://www.iscar.org/de/culthistanthpsy/
>
>
>
>
> On May 25, 2008, at 10:36 PM, Mike Cole wrote:
>
>> 2008/5/25 Boris Meshcheryakov <borlogic@orexovo.net>:
>>
>>> Another note from Boris. In a small introduction to D.B. Elkonin's book
>>> on the *Psychology of Play (1978)* Vygotsky some notes on preschool play
>>> in which is contained the following fragment:
>>>
>> "Here the action arises from the meaning of things, and not the things (in
>> themselves) -- Aufforderungscharacter.
>>
>> This is all REALLY interesting. I knew of no prior connection of the idea
>> of
>> affordance to Gibson's work, I knew that Gibson and Zaporozhets were close
>> colleagues, and I think the emphasis on
>> the relational nature of affordances ("the meaning of objects, not the
>> objects") is important..... although Boris' examples, and Neisser's, may
>> make affordances closer to the SENSE of objects
>> than their meanings. not sure, perhaps both/and.
>> mike
>>
>>>
>>> .. " " (1978) :
>>> .. - ..
>>> (. 289-294).
>>>
>>> , : «
>>> , Aufforderungscharacter» (. 292).
>>>
>>> : «,
>>> » (.).
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> ,
>>>
>>> ..
>>> mailto:borlogic@orexovo.net<borlogic@orexovo.net>
>>>
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-- 
Paolo Petta                                         +43-1-5336112-12(Tel)
Austrian Research Inst. for Artificial Intelligence +43-1-5336112-77(Fax)
Freyung 6/6, A 1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe       Paolo.Petta <@> ofai.at

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Received on Sun May 25 15:59 PDT 2008