Re: Fwd: Fwd: [xmca] Vygotsky on Identity?

From: Paul Dillon <phd_crit_think who-is-at>
Date: Fri Nov 23 2007 - 11:31:02 PST

The citation of James Baldwin, a black homosexual, provides a limit case of society's imposition of "identity". Things are clearer on the boundaries.
  An earlier post proposed the "identity" is a post-modern occidental preoccupation but this mistakes language and meta-language. Nobody ever talked about "oxygen" before Priestley isolated it while looking for de-phlogistinated air.
  Lacking in identity? Let's see, are you an " atheist, baptist, hindu, or jew, a buddhist, a catholic, or jain"? Do you cringe, grow enraged, or feel exhalted upon hearing the "Star Spangled Banner" or the "International"?

Mike Cole <> wrote:
  In red below is my attempt at translation of a note from Boris Mescheryakov
re identity and personality in LSV. Boris, whose work you can read in the
Companion to Vygotsky and elsewhere
was kind enough to look up relevant passages from LSV. I probably have not
done the translation justice, but most all of this exists in English and
others more knowledgeable of Russian
can straighten things out.

It appears were are dealing with issues that are not usefully reduced to
either or....... again.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Boris Meshcheryakov <>
Date: Nov 23, 2007 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: Fwd: [xmca] Vygotsky on Identity?
To: Mike Cole

—д€ав‚вƒй, Mike.
Ÿо-видимомƒ, п€ав‹ ‚е, к‚о ‡и‚ае‚, ‡‚о п€облема иден‚и‡но‚и,
иден‚и„ика†ии, амооп€еделени (амоде‚е€мина†ии) не б‹ли амо‚о‚елŒн‹м
п€едме‚ом €азм‹ˆлений и иледований ’‹го‚кого. œогƒ лиˆŒ п€едложи‚Œ
неко‚е его в‹каз‹вани о €азви‚ии ли‡но‚и и амоознании (‚ƒ взŒ
’‹го‚кий ‡е‚ко опи‹вал):

Apparently, those who believe that the problem of identity, identification,
self determination were not independent subjects of thought and
investigation by LSV are correct. I can only propos a few of his statements
on the development of personality and self consciousness (this connection
Vygotsky clearly did describe)

«...о‚ли‡ие €ебенка о‚ под€о‚ка може‚ б‹‚Œ лƒ‡ˆе вего в‹€ажено положением
“егел, ко‚о€‹й €азли‡ал ве‰и в ебе и ве‰и дл еб. žн гово€ил, ‡‚о ве
ве‰и ƒ‚Œ на‡ала в ебе, но на ‚ом дело не о‚анавливае‚ и в п€о†ее
€азви‚и ве‰Œ п€ев€а‰ае‚ в ве‰Œ дл еб. Так, гово€ил он, ‡еловек в ебе
е‚Œ €ебенок, зада‡а ко‚о€ого о‚ои‚ не в ‚ом, ‡‚об‹ о‚ава‚Œ в ‚ом
аб‚€ак‚ном и не€азви‚ом "в ебе", а в ‚ом, ‡‚об‹ ‚а‚Œ ‚акже и дл еб
‚ем, ‡ем он пока е‚Œ лиˆŒ в ебе, именно ‚а‚Œ вободн‹м и €азƒмн‹м
ƒ‰е‚вом. ’о‚ ‚о п€ев€а‰ение €ебенка из ‡еловека в ебе в под€о‚ка €“
‡еловека дл еб €“ и о‚авле‚ главное оде€жание вего к€изиа
пе€е…одного воз€а‚а. &shy;‚о е‚Œ по…а оз€евани ли‡но‚и и ми€овозз€ени...»
(Ÿедологи под€о‚ка, Соб€. о‡., ‚. 4, . 199).

"the difference between child and adolescent may be best expressed by
Hegel's position that distinguished things in themselves and things for
oneself. He said that the all things are initially in themselves, but
matters do not stop at this point and in the process of development the
thing turns into a thing for onself. Thus, he said, a person (man) in
himself is a child, whose task is to leave behind that abstract and
undeveloped "in himself" and in so doing, in order to become for himself in
a way that he is in the meantime only in himself, that is, to become a free
and intelligent being. This very transformation of the child into an adult
(man) in himself in the adolescent -- a person (man) for himself--
constitutes the major content of the entire crisis of this transitional age.
It is an epoch of the maturation of personality and world view (Pedology of
the Adolescent, Comp Works, v4, p. 199)

"›и‡но‚Œ ‚анови‚ дл еб ‚ем, ‡‚о она е‚Œ в ебе, ‡е€ез ‚о, ‡‚о она
п€едŠвле‚ дл д€ƒги…. &shy;‚о и е‚Œ п€о†е ‚ановлени ли‡но‚и" (˜‚о€и
€азви‚и ’ŸФ, Соб€. о‡., ‚. 3, . 144). (A) Personality becomes for
itself, when it has previously been in itself, through what it manifests
through others (History of Dev of HPF, Coll. Works, Vol 3, p. 144)

ž‡енŒ важное добавление из "˜‚о€ии €азви‚и ’ŸФ": "The following addition
from same work is very important:

«”ж. ‘олдƒин п€аведливо о‚ме‚ил, ‡‚о пон‚ие о "" €азвивае‚ ƒ €ебенка из
пон‚и о д€ƒги…. Ÿон‚ие «ли‡но‚Œ» е‚Œ, ‚.о., о†иалŒное, о‚€аженное
пон‚ие, ‚€о‰ее на онове ‚ого, ‡‚о €ебенок п€имене‚ по о‚ноˆениŽ к
амомƒ ебе ‚е п€ием‹ п€ипооблени, ко‚е он п€имене‚ по о‚ноˆениŽ к
д€ƒгим. ’о‚ по‡емƒ можно каза‚Œ, ‡‚о ли‡но‚Œ е‚Œ о†иалŒное в на» (‚.
3, . 324/ жи€н. ˆ€и„‚ мой €“ ‘.œ.).

James Baldwin correctly noted that the concept of "I" develops in a child
from the concept of others. The concept, personality, that is, the social,
reflected, concept, is built on the basis of the fact that the child uses in
relationship to himself those means of adaptation which he uses in
relationship to others. This is why it is possible to say that personality
is the social in us. (vol 3, p. 324)

˜з "Ÿи…ологи‡екого лова€" ’а€ˆав‹ и ’‹го‚кого (1931) From Varshava and
Vygotsky (1931) *Psychological Dictionary*:

"˜ден‚и„ика†и (Ф€ейд) - о‚ожде‚вление, ƒподобление еб д€ƒгой ли‡но‚и,
п€ипи‹вание ебе п€изнаков оп€еделенного ‡еловека. ˜ден‚и„ика†и иг€ае‚
ог€омнƒŽ €олŒ в новидени…, в ‚во€‡е‚ве, в м凂а…. Ÿи…ологи‡екий м‹л
˜. води‚ к €аˆи€ениŽ к€ƒга пе€еживаний, к обога‰ениŽ внƒ‚€еннего

Identification (Freud) - the equating, making similar, of oneself to another
personality, the adoption by oneself of the characteristics of a specific
person. Identification plays a huge role in reminisences, dreams and
creativity. The psychological sense of identification comes down to the
widening of one's circle of experiences (perezhivania), to the enrichment of
innner life.

"›и‡но‚Œ - ‚е€мин, озна‡аŽ‰ий един‚во и индивидƒалŒно‚Œ ве… жизненн‹… и
пи…ологи‡еки… п€овлений ‡еловека; ‡еловек, ознаŽ‰ий ам еб как
оп€еделенное индивидƒалŒное един‚во и ‚ожде‚во во ве… п€о†еа…
изменени, п€ои…од‰и… в о€ганизме и пи…ике, е‚Œ ли‡но‚Œ. ‘олезнŒ ›.
в‹€ажае‚ в €ападе ‚ого един‚ва"

Personality is a term indicating a unity in the indivualenss of all everyday
life and psychological manifestation of persons; a person (man) accepting
himself as a certain individual unity and entity in all processes of change
that take place in the organism and the psyche - this is personality.
Disease of personality is expressed in the disintegration of this unity.

˜ е‰е: ’ "Ÿи…ологии икƒ‚ва" в главе о "“амле‚е" ’‹го‚кий ак†ен‚и€ƒе‚
пон‚ие "в‚о€ого €ождени" . ’ €або‚а… .. ›еон‚Œева ‚оже в‚€е‡ае‚ ‚о‚
‚е€мин в взи  €азви‚ием амоознани в под€о‚ковом воз€а‚е. And also:
In *Psychology of Art *in the chapter on Hamlet Vygotsky accentuates the
concept, "second birth." In the works of AN Leontiev one also encounters
this term in connection with the development of selfconsciousness during


С ƒважением,

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Received on Fri Nov 23 11:33 PST 2007

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