Martin-- The pointing example is very widely cited but it really needs to
be integrated with contemporary evidence concerning the ontogeny of
pointing. George Butterworth is a key
reference. As formulated by LSV pointing emerges from reaching because the
adult notices it and appropriates the reach into the adult notion of
pointing and the adult interpretation then creates the conditions of the
child to acquire pointing. There appears to be a "natural line"
to pointing that cannot be reduced to reaching. An excellent paper topic for
someone.
mike
On 3/15/07, Joao Martins <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br> wrote:
>
> Thanks, I found the text...
>
> Joao Martins
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martin Packer" <packer@duq.edu>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 7:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Types of internalisation
>
>
> > Joao,
> >
> > I don't have the Spanish translation, but chapter 5, titled "Genesis of
> > Higher Mental Functions," starts on page 97 in the English translation
> (in
> > the Collected Works), so it's about 10 pages later.
> >
> > This is the chapter where Vygotsky gives the example of the child's
> > reaching
> > movement becoming a pointing gesture (p. 104-5) (used in Mind in
> Society).
> > But he doesn't call this internalization; instead he says it can be
> > described "using Hegel's analysis" and that it shows how "through others
> > we
> > become ourselves."
> >
> > On page 117 he's talking about the transition from "external" to
> > "internal"
> > as a 'revolution," and internal here seems to mean "a certain internal
> > brain
> > process." There are three kinds of revolution, "seam type," "revolution
> of
> > the whole," and then my xerox copy ends!
> >
> > I think what he's calling 'seam type' here he also called 'stich type'
> > elsewhere.
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > On 3/15/07 3:31 PM, "Joao Martins" <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br> wrote:
> >
> >> martin, the translation that I have is spanish, which chapter of the
> >> book
> >> that corresponds to these pages?
> >>
> >> Joao Martins
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Phil Chappell" <philchappell@mac.com>
> >> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 6:13 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [xmca] Types of internalisation
> >>
> >>
> >>> Thanks Martin,
> >>>
> >>> Some interesting metaphors used there, and a very useful passage.
> >>>
> >>> Phil
> >>> On 15/03/2007, at 5:05 AM, Martin Packer wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Phil,
> >>>>
> >>>> Check page 117 of The History of the Genesis of Higher Mental
> >>>> Functions.
> >>>>
> >>>> Martin
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 3/13/07 12:57 AM, "Phil Chappell" <philchappell@mac.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thanks Martin - I'm still looking! I've had a couple of very useful
> >>>>> suggestions off-list, too. Interesting that googling the terms draws
> >>>>> blanks in many iterations.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Phil
> >>>>> On 13/03/2007, at 3:30 AM, Martin Packer wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Phil,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yes, this is in the Collected Works, but I forget exactly where.
> >>>>>> Perhaps
> >>>>>> towards the end of History of the development of the higher mental
> >>>>>> functions?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Martin
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 3/11/07 9:50 PM, "Phil Chappell" <philchappell@mac.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dear All,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I've come across a reference to Vygotsky writing of three types of
> >>>>>>> internalisation: structural-type, stitch-type, and whole-type. I
> >>>>>>> haven't come across this in any of the Vygotsky I've read - can
> >>>>>>> anyone point me to a work that discusses this? I originally came
> >>>>>>> across it in
> >>>>>>> Robbins, D. 2003, Vygotsky's and A.A. Leontiev's semiotics and
> >>>>>>> psycholinguistics : applications for education, second language
> >>>>>>> acquisition, and theories of language , Praeger, 2003., Westport,
> >>>>>>> Conn. ; London.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Phil
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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