Carol,
How about taking the hint from sci-fi writers who are usually way ahead of the curve on what´s happening down the historical road. The Star Trek Borg represent one possibility, then there is the Matrix scenario too. What if the development of what someone called a "semiotically rich¨" (or something like that) environments really represents a transition to an entirely different type of ¨"being", i.e., just as organic matter subordinates inorganic matter one can envision the subordination of organic matter to what we think of as machines. Like the end of the Spielberg movie AI???? This seems to me to be the most likely "phylogenetic" transformation we are looking at. Just the past year British scientists succeeded in making a neural-cybernetic interface. Sure they tout the benefits for organic matter (us) but . . . why do we humans think we are in control of anything at all? I don´t see much evidence for that assumption.
What do you think?
Paul Dillon
Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com> wrote:
In the short-term we are accruing or constructing knowledge at an ever
greater rate, so semiotic mediation is more important than ever, but over
time I don't yet see how this will affect us phylogenetically.
Carol
PS Unless babies start coming down the birth canal with built in (organic)
play stations. :-))
On 1/12/07, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
>
>
> SungWon, Mike and others:
>
> Phylogeny has not stopped, we are still evolving as a species; for better
> or worse we have not stopped evolving. Am I wrong in stating that
> semiotic
> mediation is the process structure of the cultural/historical
> <->ontogeny/phylogeny dialectic?
>
> eric
>
>
>
> "Mike Cole"
>
> com> cc:
> Sent by: Subject: Re: correction RE:
> [xmca] Reference for ontological and
> xmca-bounces who-is-at web
> phylogeneticlanguagecomparison
> er.ucsd.edu
>
>
> 01/11/2007 07:57
> PM
> Please respond
> to mcole; Please
> respond to
> "eXtended Mind,
> Culture,
> Activity"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Folks, you are confusing me.
> Phylogeny is the history of human life of which human phylogeny is one
> tiny
> branch.
> During phylogeny a new form of life slowly and unevening occurred in which
> achievements of
> prior generations began to modify the biology/behavior/psychology/social
> life of creatures that
> evenuate, along one branch in homo sapiens.
>
> To say that phylogenetic evolution is a cultural historical proces////////
> is either simply a confusion
> or it implicitly marks that last millisecond of evolution when homo
> sapiens
> and homo sapiens sapiens
> emerged.
>
> My two tsarist kopeks
> mike
>
> On 1/11/07, SungWon Hwang wrote:
> >
> > Hi Eric,
> > I think it would better to see phylogenetic evolution as a
> > cultural-historical process mediated by object-oriented human
> activities.
> > Culturally historically new forms of activity emerge in and through
> > individual actions that concretely realize cultural possibilities and
> > achieve collective motives.
> > SungWon
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > On Behalf Of ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org
> > > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 1:49 AM
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: Re: correction RE: [xmca] Reference for ontological and
> > > phylogeneticlanguagecomparison
> > >
> > >
> > > Michael and Tony:
> > >
> > > Thank you for the useful information. What cultural influences would
> > > produce the phylogentic development?
> > >
> > > eric
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tony Whitson
> > >
> > > du> cc: Mike Cole
> > >
> > > Sent by: Subject: correction RE:
> > [xmca]
> > > Reference for ontological and phylogenetic
> > > xmca-bounces who-is-at web languagecomparison
> > > er.ucsd.edu
> > >
> > >
> > > 01/11/2007 09:39
> > > AM
> > > Please respond
> > > to "eXtended
> > > Mind, Culture,
> > > Activity"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I inserted "phylogenic" in the wrong place before. It's fixed below.
> > >
> > > On Thu, 11 Jan 2007, Tony Whitson wrote:
> > >
> > > > What a nice, useful analogy Michael.
> > > >
> > > > I'm thinking about how to make it more precisely parallel. The
> > > (ontogenic)
> > > > development of language ability in the child could be compared with
> > the
> > > > (ontogenic) development of a player's football skills (I'm thinking
> > > > basketball might work better, since -- at least in US "gridiron"
> > football
> > > --
> > > > most players on the field have specialized roles not requiring as
> > great
> > a
> > > > range of versatile skills as in basketball [IMHO: a defensive left
> > guard
> > > > might think otherwise]). So, the development of a [basketball]
> > player's
> > > > skills would not recapitulate the (phylogenic) development of the
> game
> > > itself. Skills
> > > > that might have had value in the game as it was played in the early
> > > history
> > > > of the game might have no value for players today, and would not be
> > part
> > > of
> > > > a developmental stage that today's players go through on their way
> to
> > > > development of skills they use today.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > On
> > > > Behalf Of Wolff-Michael Roth
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:22 AM
> > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > Cc: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Reference for ontological and phylogenetic
> > > > languagecomparison
> > > >
> > > > A CHAT perspective built on the dialectic of individual and
> > > > collective, the person realizes cultural possibilities available to
> > > > any one else. From this perspective, children grow up in a different
> > > > material context, hearing different utterances in the context of
> > > > different situation. This would lead to the contention that ontogeny
> > > > does not recapitulate phylogeny, much in the same way that a present
> > > > day football game would not recapitulate the first football game
> ever
> > > > played or its precursor. (The referent of "football" can be taken
> the
> > > > British or American way).
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > On 11-Jan-07, at 6:46 AM, ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dan I. Slobin has an article, "From Ontogenesis to phylogenesis:
> what
> > > > can
> > > > child language tell us about language evolution?" that appears in
> IN
> > > > the
> > > > j. Langer, S.T. Parker edited volume, "BIology and Knowledge.
> > > >
> > > > The questions he poses in the article are: Does linguistic ontogeny
> > > > recapitulate phylogeny?, Does linguistic diachrony recapitulate
> > > > ontogony?
> > > > OD children create grammatical forms?
> > > >
> > > > good read but not a CHAT perspective but rather biologicaly based.
> > > >
> > > > eric
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Tony Whitson
> > > UD School of Education
> > > NEWARK DE 19716
> > >
> > > twhitson@udel.edu
> > > _______________________________
> > >
> > > "those who fail to reread
> > > are obliged to read the same story everywhere"
> > > -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970)
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
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