Andy,
Okay, a couple of things. First, there are a number of forms of democracy - two major forms being representative democracy and participatory democracy. The idea that you find somebody who knows better or has more experience than you, and you choose them to make decisions, or lead you in a particular direction, is basically a representative type of democracy. Representative democracy, at least in the United States, is basically a liberal idea. It suggests that we move towards some teleological end point, and somebody who has been on the road towards that point longer than us necessarily knows more - then you - as learner, pick up the baton and continue on in that direction (as opposed to a conservative view which uses some of the same superficial methodology - but to make sure you maintain circumscribed behavior that already works). In this sense development as you say (and I am still not sure about this distinction between learning and development) is part of a grand, unified strategy (many arguments about the source of this strategy).
In a vision of participatory democracy there is no teleological end point, each problem is unique and creates its own unique problems and demands its own unique solutions. You can use tools developed from other, earlier experiments - but they are only instruments, they are not end in and of themselves - and you may have to throw them out. When a person who has gone before is involved that presents both a benefit and a danger. The benefit of course is the person who has gone before can introduce the instruments in to the new problem. The danger is the person who has gone before believes because they solved the previous problem they can solve the immediate problem - the true danger in this is that the person who has gone before actually sets the solution - based on previous experience - before engaging in the experiment. In other words, you wind up fighting yesterday's war over and over and there is never any progress. A participatory democracy starts anew in terms of problem solving with each problem. Any member of the social cooperative - any member - may have a solution to the particular problem - so all members are equal in the ability to problem solve at the start, and are dependent on each other. Individuals are celebrated, because it is the individual idea that can move the community forward - any individual idea. Each individual then has an equal role in the problem solving - they don't have equal abilities - but there is a chance that any of them can be the person who offers the next step in the problem solving. Much of this is laid out in DEMOCRACY AND EDUCATION. I have read that parts of this were translated in to Russian at the time Vygotsky was a young scholar, along with all of SCHOOL AND SOCIETY.
As far as Zoped, I was thinking last night, the question that keeps moving across my mind is - is Zoped a method for transferring cultural capital (information an individual needs to know to be successful in society) or is it a method for creating social capital (a trusting cooperative atmosphere where information is residue of relationship)?
Michael
________________________________
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of Andy Blunden
Sent: Fri 12/22/2006 2:29 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: RE: [xmca] Evolving personalized instructional construct?
I would answer Michael's first question: "Yes you have to be involved in
some activity (socially and historically extended, object-oriented) in
order to *develop* as a person, not just learn, and that involves other
people who went before you." I think that the idea that this is
anti-democratic is weird. It is anti-liberal in the individualist meaning
of that word, but liberal individualism is not the same as "democratic".
In relation to the second question: ZOPED exists only in the relationship
between an individual, particular activities (social, object-oriented) and
some artefact used in that activity, not IN the individual as such, but
unfortunately the word "zone" and how it is used, where it is the state of
an individual learner alone which is the focus, implies quite the opposite.
A habit of thought, I guess.
Andy
At 09:45 AM 21/12/2006 -0500, Michael Glassman wrote:
>... Is Zoped making the argument that we need a gate keeper to deliver us
>information that will help us realize our learning/development - or is
>Zoped a democratic atmosphere where information is in constant negotiation
>based on the needs and the problems of the participants? I have seen both
>ideas, even on this list in the past few days. Another question - is
>Zoped part of the individual - for instance, do I have a Zoped? Or is it
>some type of learning atmosphere that fosters new insights through
>communication? If it's the latter then we can test it empirically, but we
>can't quantify or objectify it (or maybe we can - I just wanted to say it
>is not in my Zoped - but do I want to say it is not in the Zoped I am
>in?). I guess the big question EPIC asks is "Does information need to be
>controlled by somebody who (claims to have?) has more experience with it
>to have worth - or is that a recipe for authoritarianism rather than democracy?
>
>Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>
>From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of Cunningham, Donald James
>Sent: Thu 12/21/2006 9:13 AM
>To: eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity
>Subject: RE: [xmca] Evolving personalized instructional construct?
>
>
>
>Yes, I was thinking of the computer versions of the SAT and GRE where the
>question you are asked next depends upon your prior answers rather than a
>set linear order. As I understand it, the procedure is supposed to allow
>the test taker to show better their "true" that might be over or
>underestimated on the basis of any given question. But certainly Ann
>Brown's notion of dynamic assessment is another example.
>
>The EPIC algorithms would operate on a massive processing premise. By
>comparing results across countless learners, it would presumably have the
>capability of providing learners with just what they need, when they need
>it. Is that good teaching?
>
>Don Cunningham
>Indiana University
>
>"Whatever you are, be a good one" - A. Lincoln
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
>Behalf Of Mike Cole
>Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 10:44 PM
>To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>Subject: Re: [xmca] Evolving personalized instructional construct?
>
>Don-- I am, like many, overwhelmed, but where did this come from:
>Adaptive testing is another
>example of an artificial intelligence that tries to move people into a
>zone of maximum response.
>
>"Adaptive testing" is restricted to computer based testing??
>
>mike
>
>
>On 12/20/06, David Preiss <davidpreiss@uc.cl> wrote:
> >
> > Don
> > Could we reframe your thoughts as the question whether is it really
> > relevant than the more competent partner in a ZOPED be a human person?
> > David
> >
> > On Dec 20, 2006, at 10:31 PM, Cunningham, Donald James wrote:
> >
> > > No one picked up on this and I should probably just drop it but the
> > > continued discussion on ZOPED prompts me to ask, could a computer
> > > algorithm be a "more knowledgeable" partner? Adaptive testing is
> > > another
> > > example of an artificial intelligence that tries to move people into a
> > > zone of maximum response. If the vision in EPIC 2015 were actualized,
> > > might not the algorithm be a sensei, showing us the way forward? I
> > > understand that the notion of _forward_ is problematic, but is that
> > > not
> > > also true of a human sensei......or any teacher? And why should the
> > > goal
> > > in a zoped be the ability to act independently? Most of the things
> > > in my
> > > life that have expanded my capabilities are things I have come to rely
> > > on and are now a part of me. I can't imagine how I ever wrote anything
> > > of value when I wrote in long hand, had a poor (now nearly blind
> > > thanks
> > > to me) secretary type it up, correct, edit, repeat, and so forth.
> > > Here I
> > > link with Donna's contribution where she mentions natural born
> > > cyborgs.
> > > Can anyone doubt that within my lifetime (and I'm OLD) that things
> > > like
> > > MP3's and cell phones will be available as surgical implants?
> > >
> > > Mind you, this all scares the beejeezes out of me..........djc
> > >
> > > Don Cunningham
> > > Indiana University
> > >
> > > "Whatever you are, be a good one" - A. Lincoln
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > On Behalf Of Cunningham, Donald James
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 10:05 PM
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: [xmca] Evolving personalized instructional construct?
> > >
> > > I sometimes wonder if the future of education is parallel to the
> > > future
> > > proposed for the news media in the flash movie EPIC 2005 (there is
> > > also
> > > an earlier version EPIC 2004). Available here:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://epic.makingithappen.co.uk/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Don Cunningham
> > >
> > > Indiana University
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Whatever you are, be a good one" - A. Lincoln
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> >
> > David Preiss, Ph.D.
> > Profesor Auxiliar / Assistant Professor
> >
> > Pontificia Universidad Catolica de Chile
> > Escuela de Psicología
> > Av Vicuña Mackenna 4860
> > Macul, Santiago
> > Chile
> >
> > Fono: 3544605
> > Fax: 3544844
> > e-mail: davidpreiss@uc.cl
> > web personal: http://web.mac.com/ddpreiss/
> > web institucional: http://www.uc.cl/psicologia
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
>_______________________________________________
>xmca mailing list
>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>_______________________________________________
>xmca mailing list
>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>xmca mailing list
>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
Andy Blunden : http://home.mira.net/~andy/ tel (H) +61 3 9380 9435, AIM
identity: AndyMarxists mobile 0409 358 651
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Wed Jan 03 2007 - 07:06:19 PST