Re: [xmca] Unbelievable - & Spanish

From: Wolff-Michael Roth (
Date: Sat Oct 21 2006 - 05:21:13 PDT

Ana, it doesn't mean different things. They HAVE to be incompossible,
the two statements, for Derrida to be able to make his point. Michael
On 20-Oct-06, at 3:14 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane wrote:

It does sound paradoxical, but in fact the word "language" does not
mean the same in both statements from Derrida. The can both be true
if we have different meanings for "language".
As for whether LSV's thinking was fully or not fully dialectical, can
you cans some references for the texts you are mentioning, Michael?
What you said is interesting because I sometimes see Vygotsky's texts
as totally dialectical and sometimes I have the feeling that he is
trying to break away from the paradigms he had criticized himself,
but is not quite where he wants to be. But I have not read anybody
else's thoughts on that.

Wolff-Michael Roth wrote:
> In all your deliberations about (mono, bi-, multi-) lingualism,
> consider the following incompossible, contradictory propositions
> that are truly dialectical in their tenure and are sublated in
> actual human praxis:
> 1. We only ever speak one language.
> 2. We never speak only one language.
> (Derrida, 1998, p. 7)
> Derrida, J. (1998). Monolingualism of the Other; or, The prosthesis
> of origin. Stanford, CA: Stanford University Press.
> To anyone interested in a dialectical account that LSV never could
> achieve because he was not fully thinking dialectically---according
> to a number of texts I recently came across---I recommend this
> little booklet very highly.
> I think we are allowed, and this is fully compatible with a
> dialectical theory of science (see Il'enkov) to go beyond the
> giants (i.e., LSV) on whose shoulders we stand.
> Cheers,
> Michael
> On 20-Oct-06, at 10:08 AM, wrote:
> Ok guys,
> let's go with bilingualism
> Vale,
> vamos con el bilinguismo
> As a first time, I´m going to try with both languages at the same
> time.
> Como es la primera vez, voy a intentar usar las dos lenguas.
> My comment today is that it is very important to realize that a real
> bilingualism should include scientific knowledge -whatever you want to
> understand by this.
> Mi primer comentario es que considero muy importante darse cuenta
> de que un
> bilinguismo total debe incluir el conocimiento científico.
> Last week, Olga Vazquez visited my University and made a
> presentation on "La
> clase mágica". One of the most relevant comments from the audience -
> all of us
> spanish researchers and undergradute students- was about the
> assymetrical
> bilingualism that we still perceived within that so interesting
> experience
> implemented by Olga and her collaborators.
> La semana pasada Olga Vazquez estuvo en mi Universidad presentando su
> investigación en "La clase Mágica". El comentario más repetido por
> parte de la
> audiencia fue sobre nuestra percepción de que el bilinguismo
> implícito en la
> experiencia es todavía asimétrico.
> We expressed this idea in terms of a defense of Spanish as a scientic
> language. But we also realized that it would be applied to other
> languages and
> we made a parallelism between the Mexican at the USA and the
> arabian at Spain.
> Expresamos esa idea como la necesidad de defender el español como
> lenguaje
> científico. Pero también éramos conscientes de que eso afecta al
> resto de las
> lenguas. Reflexionamos sobre la situación de los inmigrantes de
> origen árabe
> en ESpaña y establecíamos un cierto paralelismo con la situación de
> los
> inmigrantes de origen Mexicano (hispanos en general) implicados en
> la Clase
> Mágica.
> So I think is time to tackle the issue in XMCA, but I wonder if
> Thought &
> Language is to long as a first attempt. We can go twofold. Just
> some chapters
> from T&L. Or just some chapters from M in S. I'll delighted any way.
> Así que creo que ha llegado el momento de abordar este asunto
> dentro de XMCA
> pero creo que Pensamiento y Lenguaje puede resultad demasiado largo
> para un
> primer intento. Podemos empezar por algún capítulo aunque también
> podemos
> hacer lo mismo con "Mind in Society". Estaré encantado con
> cualquiera de las
> dos opciones.
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Ana Marjanovic'-Shane,Ph.D.

151 W. Tulpehocken St.

Philadelphia, PA 19144

Home office: (215) 843-2909

Mobile: (267) 334-2905 <> < 7Eanamshane>

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