It's interesting to me that this quote is framed within the discourse of
measurement, with all the assumptions that that implies. I don't read the
capitalized quoted phrase as implying measurement, for surely there can be
and are limits without measurement. Further, I become more and move
convinced that development (i.e., developmental activity) cannot be
> From: ERIC.RAMBERG@spps.org
> Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 09:54:23 -0600
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <email@example.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] chat analysis of ritual
> Perhaps for clarity on the subject let's look at p. 187 of Thought and
> Language (1999 Kozulin ed.).
> "To imitate, it is necessary to possess the means of stepping from
> something one knows to something nes. With assistance, every child can do
> more that he can by himself - though ONLY WITHIN THE LIMITS SET BY THE
> STATE OF HIS DEVELOPMENT. If imitative ability had no limits, any child
> would be able to solve any problem with an adult's assistance. But this is
> not the case. The child is most successful in solving problems that are
> closer to those solved independently; then the difficulties grow until, at
> a certain level of complexity, the child fails, whatever assistance is
> LSV does not mention the independent problem solving ability but rather the
> joint mediated activity that Mike writes about. However, the capitalized
> phrase emphasizes the paramaters where this joint mediated activity should
> and only can be measured. A very difficult proposition to practice whereas
> there is no accepted way of measuring development in the CHAT tradition.
> <xmca-whoever who-is-at co To: firstname.lastname@example.org,
> "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> mcast.net> <email@example.com>
> Sent by: cc:
> xmca-bounces who-is-at web Subject: Re: [xmca] chat analysis
> of ritual
> 03/16/2006 02:43
> Please respond
> to "eXtended
> Mind, Culture,
> Yes, not to be criticizing of LSV, but rather pointing to where clarity can
> improved, especially now in education where the word zoped is buzzing.
> On Thursday 16 March 2006 10:11 am, Mike Cole wrote:
>> Yes, independence is a very unfortunate word since I take it to mean a
>> particular form of interdependence.
>> Seems like critical analysis of all such oppositions that are actually
>> relationally constituted is very often a helpful
>> step in our analysis.
>> On 3/16/06, bb <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
>>> On Sunday 26 February 2006 10:55 am, Mike Cole wrote:
>>> " How can one juxtapose the words unmediated and participation?"
>>> How can one juxtapose the words "independent problem solving" in a
>>> theory of mediated development?
>>> "the distance between the actual developmental level as determined by
>>> independent problem solving and the level of potential development as
>>> determined through problem solving under adult guidance or in
>>> with more capable peers."
>>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca mailing list
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