Re: [xmca] chat analysis of ritual

Date: Fri Mar 17 2006 - 07:54:23 PST

Perhaps for clarity on the subject let's look at p. 187 of Thought and
Language (1999 Kozulin ed.).

"To imitate, it is necessary to possess the means of stepping from
something one knows to something nes. With assistance, every child can do
more that he can by himself - though ONLY WITHIN THE LIMITS SET BY THE
STATE OF HIS DEVELOPMENT. If imitative ability had no limits, any child
would be able to solve any problem with an adult's assistance. But this is
not the case. The child is most successful in solving problems that are
closer to those solved independently; then the difficulties grow until, at
a certain level of complexity, the child fails, whatever assistance is

LSV does not mention the independent problem solving ability but rather the
joint mediated activity that Mike writes about. However, the capitalized
phrase emphasizes the paramaters where this joint mediated activity should
and only can be measured. A very difficult proposition to practice whereas
there is no accepted way of measuring development in the CHAT tradition.


                      <xmca-whoever who-is-at co To:, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
            > <>
                      Sent by: cc:
                      xmca-bounces who-is-at web Subject: Re: [xmca] chat analysis of ritual
                      03/16/2006 02:43
                      Please respond
                      to "eXtended
                      Mind, Culture,

Yes, not to be criticizing of LSV, but rather pointing to where clarity can
improved, especially now in education where the word zoped is buzzing.


On Thursday 16 March 2006 10:11 am, Mike Cole wrote:
> Yes, independence is a very unfortunate word since I take it to mean a
> particular form of interdependence.
> Seems like critical analysis of all such oppositions that are actually
> relationally constituted is very often a helpful
> step in our analysis.
> mike
> On 3/16/06, bb <> wrote:
> > On Sunday 26 February 2006 10:55 am, Mike Cole wrote:
> >
> > " How can one juxtapose the words unmediated and participation?"
> >
> > Hmmm....
> >
> > How can one juxtapose the words "independent problem solving" in a
> > cultural
> > theory of mediated development?
> >
> > "the distance between the actual developmental level as determined by
> > independent problem solving and the level of potential development as
> > determined through problem solving under adult guidance or in
> > collaboration
> > with more capable peers."
> >
> > bb
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list

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