Re: RES: [xmca] Objecting to objectification

From: David Daniel Preiss Contreras (
Date: Mon Oct 31 2005 - 06:10:47 PST


Ésta me parece una excelente idea. ¿Por qué no empezamos por un texto en
español o castellano? Debiésemos, entonces, seleccionar un texto y comenzar
una discusión. ¿Qué les parece?


Phil Chappell writes:

> Dear Ricardo and All,
> I have been working with English users/learners in a similar context to
> yours, Ricardo (and others here on xmca), for 10 years here in Thailand.
> I saw immediately an "inappropriate" instance of language use that you
> made and that many of my students make - it is an unfortunate reality
> that the indeterminate delicate social and cultural constraints on
> language use in particular contexts are not known to them and you,
> particularly as you and they are enclosed from everyday activity where
> English helps shapes that activity. It is a fact that one form of English
> or an other in most international undertakings, and on xmca a western
> academic standard of English, is the dominant tool for communication and
> shared consciousness. There lies one tension, if not a contradiction.
> In my experience with English language learners who are beyond the level
> of struggling to share and build meanings with others because of their
> lack of proficiency, it is the idioms, metaphors and colloquial uses of
> English that get them into situations like these. In my experience and
> opinion, it is not as simple as looking to first language equivalents in
> thought to make a judgement on the meaning intentions. But how else can
> an actor become more than a peripheral participant?
> I, like the majority I assume am happy at Mary's response, and the
> thoughtful responses of everyone shows yet again what an incombustible
> community xmca has become over the years.
> To Mike's response, can I suggest that we have periods of language use
> other than English on the list? I reckon a number of legitimate
> peripheral participants just may enter into the main discussions if the
> language were one that they were more familiar with. And there is always
> a number of online translation services for folks like me who couldn't
> keep up in Spanish, Portuguese, Russian, Japanese....... I have learned
> much from posts that have gone to the lexical meanings of the author's
> first language (for example, smysl and znachenie) and expect I will learn
> more by struggling in another language.
> Respectfully to All,
> Phil
> An added thought...over the years that I have been on the xmca list I
> think I have had 4 or 5 private messages indicating surprise in one form
> or other that my gender is male. I've never really thought much about it,
> as I use my short name Phil for Philip, but perhaps there are some
> answers to our questions to be found there. Two of the messages were from
> females, I think...
> On 29/10/2005, at 2:17 AM, Ricardo Japiassu wrote:
>> Dear Mary Bryson and all,
>> That was not my intention - misogynist sexist objectification of Dr.
>> Setsenko's writings.
>> What I want to say, using the expression "good girl", is that she acts
>> according predictable academic constrains and rules.
>> It was not my intention to defend or advocate any "private men's club" -
>> neither a private women's one, or a private gay one. I just tried to
>> share
>> some thoughts using English as a foreing language - and I had never the
>> chance to study it in USA or Astralia or England and just made a basic
>> course here, in Brazil, many years ago.
>> Please, do not move elsewhere. I promise be silent and act in a
>> periferical
>> (lurking) way. Maybe I have been pathetic trying to communicate in a
>> language that is not mine. Forgive-me if you felt the expression I made
>> use
>> as offensive.
>> I did noy know it has this sense in English.
>> _______________________________________________
>> xmca mailing list
>> _______________________________________________
>> xmca mailing list
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> xmca mailing list

David D. Preiss
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